Friend of mine asked me if he wants to earn just extra 10 EUR a day what should he learn : Betfair trading or on-line poker. Assuming he will have the right attitude and spend some time learning stuff not just expecting miracles what those of you who tried both think about choice like that?
I don’t know anything about online poker so I cannot judge.
We are talking small money not being a pro or full time trader/player.
Paul
Poker vs trading
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dan_payne182
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:46 pm
I'm pretty confident that unless someone puts a lot of time and effort into trading he will come off a net loser. However i'm sure the same applies to poker, if your not good at it, you won't win! i'd recommend matched betting for a few bucks on the side 
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dan_payne182
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:46 pm
then i would strongly suggest against trading if he is just getting into it. i used to "play around" to try and make a bit of money and ended up losing loads. Unless you put a lot of time and effort into trading i don't think it can be profitable 
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enzabella2009
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:58 pm
on both you must have discipline. Poker unfortunaly is not just a game of skills. There are players (1st class pokerprops) that gain 85% rakeback from the pokersite. They are a group of people that fill up tables passing informations each other ( example: 6 seats 2-3 pokerprops) ( 9 seats 3-4 pokerprops). They usually target weak players. They can afford to lose 12 times their entire stakes over a week and still be in profits by 1000s. Betfair has an official amatuor pokerprops which you can apply for it. They pay you 30%-40% rakeback each month for every hands you were involved. If you managed to play 1000s a day without losing much you can get good money each month. Betfair also have unofficial pokerprops. Those players unofficially work for the site. they have unlimited cash, it very is easy to spot them. They usually start with the max available ammount and on several tables. Be aware that most of pokersites uses pokerprops. they always win. so be very carefull.
if you tryed tradings there is little bad luck over there, it is all about skills. If you were unlucky it`s not difficult to regain a profit position with the correct strategy and discepline. There are market manipulators which many believes are hired by betfair ( there is no prove of it yet) but if you lernt the job properly they won`t effect your moves. there are several strategys to lern. prerace tradings, in play tradings, bookmaking dutching. lay all etc etc. Once you are confidente you will pick up the strategy that suit you most, you will defenately say goodbye to poker. Dont rush it. you must be patience to use small stakes and lern why things happening. Nothing is easy but is defenately better the poker in my view. If you decided to have a go i wish you the best of luck.
sorry for my english.
if you tryed tradings there is little bad luck over there, it is all about skills. If you were unlucky it`s not difficult to regain a profit position with the correct strategy and discepline. There are market manipulators which many believes are hired by betfair ( there is no prove of it yet) but if you lernt the job properly they won`t effect your moves. there are several strategys to lern. prerace tradings, in play tradings, bookmaking dutching. lay all etc etc. Once you are confidente you will pick up the strategy that suit you most, you will defenately say goodbye to poker. Dont rush it. you must be patience to use small stakes and lern why things happening. Nothing is easy but is defenately better the poker in my view. If you decided to have a go i wish you the best of luck.
sorry for my english.
Hi,
I put a lot of study into poker, developing my game along the lines advocated by David Sklansky (well known player and author). The style works well in live poker games and gives a steady "long term" profit, however, the deal on the internet is radically different from that which occurs in live play. Although the deals are verified by auditors, they are never described as random, they usually say "each card has the same chance of being dealt as any other card" a statement which can hide a multitude of sins. The official reason that this phrase is used is that only about 9% or 10% of the possible starting combinations of a shuffled pack are used because of IT considerations. I have played online for five years and witnessed many deals each of which I would expect to see once in a lifetime playing live. The cynical may suggest that since "The rake" is the on-line poker rooms source of income, the deal is manipulated to create large rakes by having several hands "hit" the flop leading to considerable action.
In conclusion, in spite of being successful playing live, I have been unable to beat the game in any of the on line casinos.
Of course the decision whther to play on line poker or trade lies with the individual,
cheers, P
I put a lot of study into poker, developing my game along the lines advocated by David Sklansky (well known player and author). The style works well in live poker games and gives a steady "long term" profit, however, the deal on the internet is radically different from that which occurs in live play. Although the deals are verified by auditors, they are never described as random, they usually say "each card has the same chance of being dealt as any other card" a statement which can hide a multitude of sins. The official reason that this phrase is used is that only about 9% or 10% of the possible starting combinations of a shuffled pack are used because of IT considerations. I have played online for five years and witnessed many deals each of which I would expect to see once in a lifetime playing live. The cynical may suggest that since "The rake" is the on-line poker rooms source of income, the deal is manipulated to create large rakes by having several hands "hit" the flop leading to considerable action.
In conclusion, in spite of being successful playing live, I have been unable to beat the game in any of the on line casinos.
Of course the decision whther to play on line poker or trade lies with the individual,
cheers, P
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lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi
I know you put an either / or, but have you tried backgammon, a game of luck, startegy, quick thinking and dice. You can shoot me down but if it is just for fun and to try to make a bit of cash.
One never knows ones hidden talents, stay lucky whatever.
Cheers
LilGB
I know you put an either / or, but have you tried backgammon, a game of luck, startegy, quick thinking and dice. You can shoot me down but if it is just for fun and to try to make a bit of cash.
One never knows ones hidden talents, stay lucky whatever.
Cheers
LilGB
There are some easy ways to make money over the internet, but poker and trading sure aren't among them.Bluffcity wrote:Money does not grow on tree's, there is no easy way to make money on the internet.
You can make money trading and at poker but both require a lot of time and effort.
90% of online poker players lose money.
I've been trying to trade for 3-4 months now, and am still a net loser on trading. Jeff did suggest in another thread that the 'bread and butter' of trading consists of simple mechnical methods. Unfortunately, I think the 'edges' are only 'simple' after you know what they are. Unless you are very smart to begin with (or other very smart people spell them out to you) you'll likely never find them.
For those who want to make easy money over the Internet and do the 'traveling to Australia in the campervan' fantasy, I can tell you how to do that (because I'm doing it). The work you want is free-lance writing - just Google on 'free-lance writing' and there are companies you can join up with where you can work over the internet and make very reasonable money editing. You can make a nice income working anywhere in the world using only a laptop with internet connection, get paid right to your bank account, be your own boss and travel anywhere you want! I think most people will find this much easier and less stressful than trading or poker!
Cheers
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lahicks666
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 3:08 pm
Did you go to a Betangel seminar or have mentoring mate?.. I'm wondering if this makes a big difference to starting out trading?.. If anyone would know.I've been trying to trade for 3-4 months now, and am still a net loser on trading
Cheers
Nope, no mentoring, trial and error so far mate. Unfortunately, as Jeff warned me, 'Experimentation leads to losses'.lahicks666 wrote:
Did you go to a Betangel seminar or have mentoring mate?.. I'm wondering if this makes a big difference to starting out trading?.. If anyone would know.
Cheers
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lahicks666
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 3:08 pm
Well fair play to you! Takes some guts to do that, but I guess at least you can build an understanding for yourself!
Hi Guys,
Interesting conversation. I feel I'm qualified to speak out on a couple of points here so here goes.
First the negative - both trading and poker are exceptionally difficult to master and anyone thinking they can make some 'beer money' casually should think again. Both require significant effort but both are winnable if you apply yourself and work harder than almost everyone else.
A couple of comments on here have been made about poker. Whilst it is common perception that only 10% of online poker players win it is actually much higher than that. A report commissioned by pokertableratings indicated that the rate was closer to 30%. Being a non-believer I did my own study on over 5 million hands (160,000 players) and those players winning were around 28%. If you filter out the casual players who play the least hands the win rate goes up to around 50%. If you focus purely on those playing hundreds of thousands of hands the win rate approaches 75%. Whilst rakeback deals help breakeven players make money the best players make their money at the tables.
My second point on poker is that of security and integrity. I have recently had some correspondence with pokerstars on the integrity of their shuffle. Here is an excerpt from their reply:
Our software produces a shuffle that is completely random, which favors no player over any other. The methods we use ensure complete randomization of the cards, and complete unpredictability of the cards to come.
They go on to refer to me to their independent auditor. You can see above they do use the word 'random'. Their audit shows total use of all cards in the deck and all combinations of those cards. Poker sites make enough from the rake legally. To defraud players would be suicide. The same goes for using prop players in huge numbers.
Trading is similar in many ways. You are taking a certain risk for a certain reward and you need to be able to measure each. If you use mechanical stop losses your risk can be calulated on a trade by trade basis, you then need to know how often trades go in your favour and how much you win (on average) when they do. Subtract your commissions, risk of power outages leaving you exposed etc and you have your risk/reward profile.
What I'm getting at here is that with both pursuits you need the whole picture. It isn't enough to be able to predict price movement better than 50% of the time. You need to understand the math behind what you do.
Good luck
Interesting conversation. I feel I'm qualified to speak out on a couple of points here so here goes.
First the negative - both trading and poker are exceptionally difficult to master and anyone thinking they can make some 'beer money' casually should think again. Both require significant effort but both are winnable if you apply yourself and work harder than almost everyone else.
A couple of comments on here have been made about poker. Whilst it is common perception that only 10% of online poker players win it is actually much higher than that. A report commissioned by pokertableratings indicated that the rate was closer to 30%. Being a non-believer I did my own study on over 5 million hands (160,000 players) and those players winning were around 28%. If you filter out the casual players who play the least hands the win rate goes up to around 50%. If you focus purely on those playing hundreds of thousands of hands the win rate approaches 75%. Whilst rakeback deals help breakeven players make money the best players make their money at the tables.
My second point on poker is that of security and integrity. I have recently had some correspondence with pokerstars on the integrity of their shuffle. Here is an excerpt from their reply:
Our software produces a shuffle that is completely random, which favors no player over any other. The methods we use ensure complete randomization of the cards, and complete unpredictability of the cards to come.
They go on to refer to me to their independent auditor. You can see above they do use the word 'random'. Their audit shows total use of all cards in the deck and all combinations of those cards. Poker sites make enough from the rake legally. To defraud players would be suicide. The same goes for using prop players in huge numbers.
Trading is similar in many ways. You are taking a certain risk for a certain reward and you need to be able to measure each. If you use mechanical stop losses your risk can be calulated on a trade by trade basis, you then need to know how often trades go in your favour and how much you win (on average) when they do. Subtract your commissions, risk of power outages leaving you exposed etc and you have your risk/reward profile.
What I'm getting at here is that with both pursuits you need the whole picture. It isn't enough to be able to predict price movement better than 50% of the time. You need to understand the math behind what you do.
Good luck