Been using BA for a while and think I am trading with the right idea.
Saturday and Sunday for example made over £80 each day trading/scalping before the off.
On most days I can make anywhere between £50 and £200, but...................................
When I do get a loss, its generally fairly devastating, been caught a couple of times when its gone inplay and tried to get out but not managed it, been caught several times by ridiculous swings.
I only back now as I would back and lay previously, but was getting caught far more often with lay liability than if I put money in to a back market.
Ruined all the weekends good work today and it is becoming very frustrating as I am sure I am not too far away from really making a go of trading.
So.............why am I posting, well I would like any advice anyone is prepared to offer that might help.
I have tried being disciplined but just not quite getting it right or cutting out soon enough and accepting a loss, I know its about your mental approach but if anyone could give me any tips, ideas etc to help get out sooner then it would be appreciated as right now I just can't quite get it right.
I trade manually because I find it gives me better regular returns, but also on occasion delivers big losses. I have tried using the automated settings to help my trading but found because of the volatility of the markets using the settings often delivered me a loss and then it would really kick me in the nuts seconds later by moving as I expected to what could have been a really nice profit.
Thanks
K
Today's total horlicks!
First I would suggest you take a few days off. Don’t fire up ba or log into betfair for 2/3 days or more. Give yourself time to get over the frustration/gutted/annoying feelings.
Don’t set any targets at all, i.e. I will make £80 today, or I will make 17% of my bank, or I will trade every race on every card, or I will have increased by bank by 500% at the end of the month., or I will recover all of yesterdays losses etc. they will add unnecessary pressure, more pressure, more likely to make mistakes.
Next I suggest when you have regained your composure, divide your normal stake by 3. just use a third for a while until your confidence returns. Don’t stop laying. if your stake is reduced to a third its normal level, your lay liabilities are reduced by a third if things get out of hand. By stopping the laying your are drastically reducing the potential amount of good entry points that may present themselves.
If you start getting annoyed/frustrated stop for a while. If you smoke, smoke. Make a cup of tea or something, but stop for 15 minutes or so to regain your composure.
If you trade all the day cards, have a break from doing the evening ones or at least don’t trade the first 2/3. break have a rest from it. Don’t trade the last race on each evening card.
Avoid the less liquid irish races, only trade the ones with decent amounts of money matched.
I agree about automating except one thing. I would suggest you use the excel sheet to auto green/red up at a predetermined time before the official off. For example 5 secs before the official off. It will green/red you out and cancel any unmatched positions you have open. taking any emotional element away (particularly negative emotions), you just then switch to the next market, and reset the excel sheet (it’s quite easy to set excel to green/red up before the off or after the off, as I have recently found).
If you start feeling a bit over confident, slightly too happy. Stop. False/over confidence is as bad.
Just try to stop when things are denting your confidence or are starting to annoy you, i.e. 3 or 4 red ups on the trot. I know it’s easier said than done, I’ve been there reckon most have. I think it is a necessary step in learning to trade. The scalping of ticks etc is not that hard, it’s controlling you/your emotions that is the really hard and complicated part.
You might want to google something called The Triune Theory of the Brain. It’s a evolutionary theory that we have 3 brains an inner that is the most primitive, one on top of that, that is less primitive, and one on top of that, which is where “the conscious you resides”. It helps explain why we have so much trouble in controlling negative emotions and actions i.e. allowing a trade to go in play, when we know it’s a real stupid thing to do but we find it near impossible not to. The theory does not give any methods on overcoming the brains primitive/survival programming but, understanding why things happen I feel is at least half the battle (I’m an engineer; engineers hate not knowing why things do what they do ). in short maintaining discipline in trading seems to be in dircect opposition to your more primative brains primary functions of keeping you alive and ensuring you protect your assets (food, water, etc), giving you a better chance of passing on your genes. its extremley hard over coming millions of years worth of successful survival instincts in a few weeks/months.
Hope some of this is of some help to you.
Don’t set any targets at all, i.e. I will make £80 today, or I will make 17% of my bank, or I will trade every race on every card, or I will have increased by bank by 500% at the end of the month., or I will recover all of yesterdays losses etc. they will add unnecessary pressure, more pressure, more likely to make mistakes.
Next I suggest when you have regained your composure, divide your normal stake by 3. just use a third for a while until your confidence returns. Don’t stop laying. if your stake is reduced to a third its normal level, your lay liabilities are reduced by a third if things get out of hand. By stopping the laying your are drastically reducing the potential amount of good entry points that may present themselves.
If you start getting annoyed/frustrated stop for a while. If you smoke, smoke. Make a cup of tea or something, but stop for 15 minutes or so to regain your composure.
If you trade all the day cards, have a break from doing the evening ones or at least don’t trade the first 2/3. break have a rest from it. Don’t trade the last race on each evening card.
Avoid the less liquid irish races, only trade the ones with decent amounts of money matched.
I agree about automating except one thing. I would suggest you use the excel sheet to auto green/red up at a predetermined time before the official off. For example 5 secs before the official off. It will green/red you out and cancel any unmatched positions you have open. taking any emotional element away (particularly negative emotions), you just then switch to the next market, and reset the excel sheet (it’s quite easy to set excel to green/red up before the off or after the off, as I have recently found).
If you start feeling a bit over confident, slightly too happy. Stop. False/over confidence is as bad.
Just try to stop when things are denting your confidence or are starting to annoy you, i.e. 3 or 4 red ups on the trot. I know it’s easier said than done, I’ve been there reckon most have. I think it is a necessary step in learning to trade. The scalping of ticks etc is not that hard, it’s controlling you/your emotions that is the really hard and complicated part.
You might want to google something called The Triune Theory of the Brain. It’s a evolutionary theory that we have 3 brains an inner that is the most primitive, one on top of that, that is less primitive, and one on top of that, which is where “the conscious you resides”. It helps explain why we have so much trouble in controlling negative emotions and actions i.e. allowing a trade to go in play, when we know it’s a real stupid thing to do but we find it near impossible not to. The theory does not give any methods on overcoming the brains primitive/survival programming but, understanding why things happen I feel is at least half the battle (I’m an engineer; engineers hate not knowing why things do what they do ). in short maintaining discipline in trading seems to be in dircect opposition to your more primative brains primary functions of keeping you alive and ensuring you protect your assets (food, water, etc), giving you a better chance of passing on your genes. its extremley hard over coming millions of years worth of successful survival instincts in a few weeks/months.
Hope some of this is of some help to you.
Thanks, I really appreciate your reply, all of which I can relate to.
One point you have made is something that I have probably had my worst 2 or 3 losses on.................Irish Racing!!!!
One thing is for sure........I will not entertain those markets again.
I don't really set a target, I just trade and take each market as it comes, ie a £1.57 profit, a £23.11 profit, a £3.79 loss etc etc etc, however if I get to £200 in profit I switch off for the day.
Never used the excel sheet for anything, but will certainly look at it now just as a tool for getting out before in play kicks in, any advice on how to do this would again be appreciated.
Thanks
K
One point you have made is something that I have probably had my worst 2 or 3 losses on.................Irish Racing!!!!
One thing is for sure........I will not entertain those markets again.
I don't really set a target, I just trade and take each market as it comes, ie a £1.57 profit, a £23.11 profit, a £3.79 loss etc etc etc, however if I get to £200 in profit I switch off for the day.
Never used the excel sheet for anything, but will certainly look at it now just as a tool for getting out before in play kicks in, any advice on how to do this would again be appreciated.
Thanks
K
if you follow this link viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2194&start=0
it should take you the spreadsheet forum, where I asked for advice on autogreening.
Poster called willooo came up with a suggestion. I have yet to attempt his suggestion just not had the time. In the time between my post and his reply I came up with a different method which works fine. Willooos method is a lot more elegant than mine.
Reckon willooo understands a lot about excel, and he is very helpful.
It was mainly for trading the irish races that I wanted to use autogreening/reddeng, I like to take a belt and braces approach to irish racing. There is nothing wrong with irish racing, it’s the lack of liquidity on a lot of them, and on the liquid ones, the money comes late and erratically that is the problem (my opinion).
Read the thread if you understand excel your sus it out. If you have limited/no excel
experience reply on either this or the excel thread, or pm me (does not matter which way), and I will try and post/pm you (whatever you prefer) what I have done on my sheet, so you have an exact replica.
it should take you the spreadsheet forum, where I asked for advice on autogreening.
Poster called willooo came up with a suggestion. I have yet to attempt his suggestion just not had the time. In the time between my post and his reply I came up with a different method which works fine. Willooos method is a lot more elegant than mine.
Reckon willooo understands a lot about excel, and he is very helpful.
It was mainly for trading the irish races that I wanted to use autogreening/reddeng, I like to take a belt and braces approach to irish racing. There is nothing wrong with irish racing, it’s the lack of liquidity on a lot of them, and on the liquid ones, the money comes late and erratically that is the problem (my opinion).
Read the thread if you understand excel your sus it out. If you have limited/no excel
experience reply on either this or the excel thread, or pm me (does not matter which way), and I will try and post/pm you (whatever you prefer) what I have done on my sheet, so you have an exact replica.