Wind Ops

[SeaHorseRacing]

I am sure many are you now aware of the new Wind Surgery "WS" being added on 19th January.

Curious to know your thoughts. Could lead to some really nice gambles until the dust settles. Surely the hype is going to start effecting some moves as everyone will be onto it?

Has any other long serving trader been around when such a rule was changed and did it give you any opportunity's? For example cant remember how long ago but pretty sure it was only this century the BHA made hood declarations compulsory...

[Halliday]

I am sure many are you now aware of the new Wind Surgery "WS" being added on 19th January.

Curious to know your thoughts. Could lead to some really nice gambles until the dust settles. Surely the hype is going to start effecting some moves as everyone will be onto it?

Has any other long serving trader been around when such a rule was changed and did it give you any opportunity's? For example cant remember how long ago but pretty sure it was only this century the BHA made hood declarations compulsory...

There's been many rule changes over recent years about various appendages added to horses etc. Was reading a article about sheepskin cheekpieces, which apparently were first worn ( at least in modern times ) by Chief Mouse in 1998 trained by Frank Jordan at Bangor . The horse won the race by a neck . Apparently previously they had been banned in Ireland.They now are quite common place and have to be declared ( denoted by p on race card ) See link below


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 37080.html

Reading from above article blinkers , hood , visor etc became compulsory to declare in the 1970s.

There is no evidence that a wind op has a positve effect or a negative effect on a horses performance, (link below is an interesting read ),tho I do remember a couple of Paul Nicholls horses showing massive improvement after such an op.

Very similar effect to wearing a tongue tie( which also aids breathing... which now has to be declared . I suspect it will have little effect in produced " gambles etc" as it's often mentioned that the horse has had a wind op prior to races .

I suspect a horse being in foal often produces more improvement .. Avon Breeze winning three this season when in foal etc

https://mobile.twitter.com/FOBRacing/st ... 9668799489


There are numerous angles regarding most of the above,. E.g. Robert Cowell Sprinters wearing a visor first time used be profitable.Proform is a useful tool for those wishing to find such angles

Very similar to some of the recent track bias at the likes of Chelmsford ( front runners ) etc

[to75ne]

if they give the horses colour which i cant see as any meaningful bearing at all, why not wind opps.

[ShaunWhite]

if they give the horses colour which i cant see as any meaningful bearing at all, why not wind opps.

It's no bearing on the performance but certainly helps to some extent when trading the big field classic races. Grays are always over punted because people can see which one they've backed when, let's face it, all the brown ones look exactly the same to the untrained eye.

[to75ne]

if they give the horses colour which i cant see as any meaningful bearing at all, why not wind opps.

It's no bearing on the performance but certainly helps to some extent when trading the big field classic races. Grays are always over punted because people can see which one they've backed when, let's face it, all the brown ones look exactly the same to the untrained eye.

that is true but i doubt very much if they give a toss about aiding trading as to whether they publish wind opps, horses colour, tounge ties etc. trading seems to be considered as the devils work and traders low life scum to the wider world

[SeaHorseRacing]

Very true.

There is only one valid use for knowing the colour of a horse. If horse is same colour as its stallion or mare you can use it as a guide as likely stamp of who there genetics will be like. The biggest frankel foals sold are the ones who are bay just like him and walk just like him.

For anyone interested did you know. There is a simple way to tell what is a horses colour.

Obviously black and grey horses are straight forward but alot of people sometimes struggle to tell difference between a bay or chestnut.

A bay horse will always have black tail and mane.

Any red or chestnut looking horse who has black mane and tail is a bay.

[ShaunWhite]

I've never understood why people spend time and effort trying to identify 'good' horses by studying bloodlines and the like. If you're punting then the only thing worth trying to calculate is value regardless of the horse, an almost impossible black art. Also if hundreds of officianados and their dog's are all hunting for and identifying quality horses (and all assuming they've found one others haven't) then surely the best value is to be found in the horses that are written off as being hopeless.

If human nature is anything to go by then laying the quality horses and backing the no hopers would seem to be the logical conclusion. The best way to find a niche is to do the opposite thing to the crowd, and the crowd seems to be dominated by 'students' of form all looking for the same few hidden good things.

If there's any trading value in that research then it might be useful to identify horses that are going to be popular picks. But even then the benefit derived vs the cost of the time spent is marginal at best.

[SeaHorseRacing]

I agree. From my point of view even if I had millions to spare Why would I chance huge bucks on a chance when there is no guarentee.

The problem is. Breeders and owners pay big bucks for prodominetely two reason.
1. Lucky enough to find a superstar
2. Its full bloodline history.

For example a colt/horse who was sired by an average horse... even if this colt/horse won 8 G1s in a row would be worth considerable less then a two time g1 horse with a bloodline of champions.

Genetics are so complicated and the quality from all will produce better consistancy of champions.

Frankel such a good example his brother and sister were also phenonimal. By no means an exact science but i think it lies on finding a superstar that is related to superstars.

I agree i think assess value on pedigree or bloodline is verging on insanity.

What happens when you come across no hopers and poor bred horses is there likely to be fiddlers.
Then its are trainers looking for handicap mark... what is their ideal trip etc. Becomes more difficult to do.

However... back to wind ops.

I do think were going to see some big gambles at first. Quite excited to see how it plays. Especially Cheltenham. I think a huge percentage will have wind ops for the festival and i think alot of trainers that have been moaning are actually annoyed because some horses need wind ops regulalry to keep them right and we will start to see how trainers work.

Im more interested in trainer patterns. Worked in the business and majority of trainers are only trying a small percentage of the time and i think this alone will show how they play the system.

[SeaHorseRacing]

If a huge number of horse have WS for the Cheltenham festival there going to be questions.

Particularly if one trainer has most of his runners WS for Cheltenham which there will be. There recent running performance is going to be put into question.

Horses that need wind ops often.... but dont have them for certain runs are going to be seen and found out.

[ShaunWhite]

I've just been reading up on 'wind ops'.
What a pleasant euphemism for an utterly barbaric proceedure. Nerve damage, removal of vocal chords, difficulty eating, soft palette issues, trauma etc etc. I do realise that the next stop for an unprofitable horse is the abattoir but does this practice really have a place in 21st century sport, competitions for the purpose of entertainment ?

No wonder you never hear of Mo Farah or Bradley Wiggins having a 'wind op' to improve their performance!

I await a barrage of comments about being 'over sensitive' but I suspect my irrelevent reaction would be more common than not in the wider population. The question is, Do the racing authorities think that this a) appeals to a modern customer or b) doesn't appeal. I do know this isn't a new thing, but it's obviously been a subject for discussion at racing hq. I'm just suprised that they haven't made a bold business decision and given racing some positive publicity by addressing this welfare issue; unless they're concerned it would make people curious about what else goes on.

[SeaHorseRacing]

My actual view of wind ops is that they should be banned full stop and I think they will eventually.

If a horse needs wind surgery they should be deemed a risk and retired.

[ShaunWhite]

That's interesting coming from someone with the extensive experience of horses & yards that you have. I'm reassured that my instinctive outsider's reaction is similar to someone with first hand knowledge of what's involved and the potential consequences. I'm originally a 'country boy' myself so I'm not squeemish about what sometimes needs to be done with animals sometimes, but I'm very uncomforatable about what's done for entertainment.

[SeaHorseRacing]

That's interesting coming from someone with the extensive experience of horses & yards that you have. I'm reassured that my instinctive outsider's reaction is similar to someone with first hand knowledge of what's involved and the potential consequences. I'm originally a 'country boy' myself so I'm not squeemish about what sometimes needs to be done with animals sometimes, but I'm very uncomforatable about what's done for entertainment.

I would never recommend for you to walk around a big flat yard this time of year. Gelding Ops are ripe this time of year.

Without sounding too incesintive. It is literally, open stable door, Vet dopes them, cuts them open, stack there stable full of straw and tie them up.
What annoys me is they dont even clean them up.
For the stable lads that have to care for them its actually quite unpleasant. The blood left dripping down the back of the legs and in the stable is enough to make most people pass out.

The big racing yards are having 4/5 gelded daily this time of year.

The whole process of all Equine surgery is not what you would think... horse being loaded into a van to a nice equine hospital etc... doesn't happen.

It is litrally, tie them up and carryout procedure in their own stable. The one thing I dont like about racing is this part.

[SeaHorseRacing]

Please only watch if your not squeamish!!

For anyone who is interested this is pretty much how a gelding procedure is carried out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYCGCjTKA0E

Imo the whole process has no dignity or empathy towards horses.

So you can imagine a similar process for a wind op... just to get an improvement for a run...

[ShaunWhite]

mmm I think I'l swerve that one.
I'll wait until they show it as a feature on ITV's Saturday racing show or on the Jumbotron on family day.