Bloke from the Telegraph reckons we should all pay 10% to the levy because making money on an exchange is so simple.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horser ... -levy.html
So easy...
-
dan_payne182
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:46 pm
i'll have to get a few pointers off him then!
You would think that after ten years, people would understand that backing and laying are one and the same thing. But then, if you have an agenda its seems spreading confusion is always a sensible tactic if people are gullible enough to buy into it.
I like this bit:
"They are backing and laying horses, sometimes with the help of computers..."
Is that so odd since the most popular exchanges I know of are internet based? What are we meant to use? Carrier pigeon?
Or perhaps he is referring to automatic trading?
Edit: I just re-read the article. My knowledge of the horse racing world is poor. I'm fairly new to trading and try not to get caught up in studying form etc. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not
Anyway that's beside the point.
So this chap is suggesting that successful traders should pay 10% levy? On top of 5% BF charge and Premium charge(if your good )?
I may be way off with this but this sounds exactly like whats happening in the music and film industry. These industries are now seeking to maintain their antiquated business model through legislation rather than good practice. People need to stop bowing to them and drag them kicking and screaming into the digital age.
An example of what I'm taking about is something like the blank media levy. From Wiki:
"A private copying levy (also known as blank media tax or levy) is a government-mandated scheme in which a special tax or levy (additional to any general sales tax) is charged on purchases of recordable media. Such taxes are in place in various countries and the income is typically allocated to the developers of "content". (A distinction is sometimes made between "tax" and "levy" based on the recipient of the accumulated funds; taxes are received by a government, while levies are received by a private body, such as a copyright collective.)"
It appears in the above case that regardless of what you do with your discs your are going to pay something to RIAA or MPAA. A prime example of government mandated profit. Heaven forbid they actually did something to make their products more attractive to consumers. But no, its easier to bully Governments into making your profit a legal right.
Tash
"They are backing and laying horses, sometimes with the help of computers..."
Is that so odd since the most popular exchanges I know of are internet based? What are we meant to use? Carrier pigeon?
Or perhaps he is referring to automatic trading?
Edit: I just re-read the article. My knowledge of the horse racing world is poor. I'm fairly new to trading and try not to get caught up in studying form etc. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not
Anyway that's beside the point. So this chap is suggesting that successful traders should pay 10% levy? On top of 5% BF charge and Premium charge(if your good
)? I may be way off with this but this sounds exactly like whats happening in the music and film industry. These industries are now seeking to maintain their antiquated business model through legislation rather than good practice. People need to stop bowing to them and drag them kicking and screaming into the digital age.
An example of what I'm taking about is something like the blank media levy. From Wiki:
"A private copying levy (also known as blank media tax or levy) is a government-mandated scheme in which a special tax or levy (additional to any general sales tax) is charged on purchases of recordable media. Such taxes are in place in various countries and the income is typically allocated to the developers of "content". (A distinction is sometimes made between "tax" and "levy" based on the recipient of the accumulated funds; taxes are received by a government, while levies are received by a private body, such as a copyright collective.)"
It appears in the above case that regardless of what you do with your discs your are going to pay something to RIAA or MPAA. A prime example of government mandated profit. Heaven forbid they actually did something to make their products more attractive to consumers. But no, its easier to bully Governments into making your profit a legal right.
Tash
Last edited by mctash on Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Firstly Charlie Brooks is clueless about this area - I read his words every time he has a column and his lack of knowledge is astounding given that he feels he is in a position to petition MP's about it - yet he seems to think he knows what he is talking about.Charlie Brooks wrote:You, Mr. Penrose, will have to decide when recreational gambling on an exchange becomes earning a living? It is inevitable that new legislation will have to be passed. Failure to grasp this nettle will make a mockery of the necessity for bookmakers to hold a licence.
The quote above for example, he really does fail to realise that we are not operating as a Bookmaker. A Bookmaker is a person who takes bets, holds funds and pays winnings in brief. We do none of the above! We place bets and that is it - nothing more and nothing less.
We do not bet against each other, we bet just like someone who bets with William Hills etc, we bet against Betfair. The fact that Betfair manage their risk perfectly does not matter. We do not take bets. As such we do not pay out winnings and we do not hold funds - Betfair do it all and it is for that exact reason we do not and never should be asked to have a Bookmaking Licence - the only criteria we need to meet to bet is to have enough money to cover our bets and our bets only.
Likewise - since when did Gambling for a living become taxable Charlie? Is it just because we use an onshore exchange that you think we should pay a Levy as opposed to betting with an offshore bookmaker who pays no Levy at all but you don't seem to have issue with this?
On a different note from his article:
Care to expand Charlie on why Racing deserves to benefit from betting yet Cricket doesn't? People in racing really need to stop handing out the begging bowl and learn to run the Sport without Government subsidy as that is all that the Levy is. What other Sport gets a Levy from bettting?Charlie Brooks wrote:Cricket has never benefited from betting, there is no reason why it should have done. Which means there will be none of the conflicts, which are now causing strife in the horse racing world.
surely not on an internet based betting exchange 
I see no mention in this article of the fat overrounds that Bookmakers are in a position to charge that us poor traders have no chance of, nor the fact that bookmakers can use the exchanges to lay off liability at efficient prices to hedge their risk if they please.
Any profits we make are by way of taking risk as in any other venture worthy of a return.
Any profits we make are by way of taking risk as in any other venture worthy of a return.
Don't forget to write to the levy board yourselves about this, there are a lot of articulate people here and we need to make sure our voices are heard in this debate as no one seems to be sticking up for us on this one. I know that a lot of people here think that the arguments being put against us are ridiculous but if we don't give counter arguments ourselves it would be all too easy for the levy board to just follow the line of those who have written in.
You can find the overall consulation document here:
http://www.hblb.co.uk/document.php?id=360
It's probably best viewed as a PDF here:
http://www.hblb.co.uk/documents/Betting ... tation.pdf
The address to email your opinion to is here:
[email protected]
The consultation closes on 20th September so make sure you do it as soon as possible. Anyone with any interest in racing trading would be mad not to take 5 minutes of their time to do this
You can find the overall consulation document here:
http://www.hblb.co.uk/document.php?id=360
It's probably best viewed as a PDF here:
http://www.hblb.co.uk/documents/Betting ... tation.pdf
The address to email your opinion to is here:
[email protected]
The consultation closes on 20th September so make sure you do it as soon as possible. Anyone with any interest in racing trading would be mad not to take 5 minutes of their time to do this