Playing Vs Earning! Serious to earn a living

[lockhud]

Hi Everyone

i've been reading the forums for months and dipping into betangel. i've have learnt along the way how to improve my trading, get a feel for the market, spot situations etc etc

i've been starting low with £2 stakes finding my feet but now feel i've come to a crossroads. Since i've altered my trading style to incorporate everything i have learnt. My record in the last 300+ races i have a strike rate of 91% however my P/L sheet only shows a profit of £1.32. I've noticed many other threads seeming to mention similar things where one bad race can wipe out whole days profit and more and this is where i find myself also. I've read the comments on wipe out the mistakes cut the losses etc but it easier said than done. In my strategy i usually increase my stake as the market flows against me to bounce back one pip and regain for example 4/5 pips if so the market goes like that, which does on the face of it seem to work and when it goes in direction your assuming its all well and good.

i'm not a greedy man so have targeted to earn approx £80 a day which seems more than realistic my question would be would sort of bank balance is around correct to have in betfair and what would be the general staking amount. i appreciate there are a few variables but i'm looking for a rough guideline, for example i'm not going to get to £80 a day staking £2 but with what i've seen so far profit is harder to keep with the odd random race which is seriously harming my chances.

Thanks guys i understand it might be a bit vague but as mentioned its at a point now where £2 is not really cutting it and i need to either sink or swim, i don;t want to start out where i can;t cover my plan so obviously the more i have in the kitty the better i assume!

[LeTiss]

I can't speak for racing traders, as I'm a full-time sport trader

I find making £100 per day from a £5000 bank on pre-event sport comfortable once experienced.
My stakes would vary depending on my confidence, how strong the market liquidity was, and how long to the off

[lockhud]

Thanks for the reply, i was thinking similar that it would be around £5000 - £10000 mark it seems that the only limit to stop yourself making a huge mistake is having the money to cover the next pip as it will always bounce at least 1 retraction or 2 somewhere along the line, therefore if you can sustain a large pip movement against you, your only ever off 1 pip of either breaking even of making that original slight profit it you have a staking plan and keep to it, would the experienced traders tend to agree with this?

[hgodden]

Assuming you have the skill / mentality etc, depending upon what you're doing, you're unlikely to need as much as you think in the racing markets. Even less than a 1k bank divided up into smaller stakes turned through the markets enough times would be enough for many experienced traders to make the amount you're talking about

[rvdart01]

Hi LeTiss,
Pure curiosity: what markets do you trade on / do you find easiest ?
Thanks
H

[LeTiss]

Hi LeTiss,
Pure curiosity: what markets do you trade on / do you find easiest ?
Thanks
H

Any sport market with over £20k matched with 1 hour still to go, is a market worth trading

Obviously, the higher the liquidity, the easier it is to push more money through

I would say 90% of my trades are on Football & Tennis Match Odds

This is why I got so excited over the volume column being added into Guardian - it's brilliant for people like me to quickly target the markets to trade

[lockhud]

Thanks for reply I understand in regards to lots of small money going through so needing a smaller bank however with the trading style and sometimes the run going against me I would need a certain amount to cover it, I have been in situation in the past where I would of exited a trade which run against me in profit if I had the money to lay/in the bank but because my bank was short I could't cover and ended up losing on this occasion. I learned from this mistake when I read that back, if I had enough money etc etc it sounds to be more like a desperate gambler rather than a trader!! For example if i had enough money sooner or later roulette wheel will come in red! You know what I mean, I do think staking plans definitely help but are they the route of evil swell which can lead you to a huge loss?

[rvdart01]

Thanks LeTiss.

Do you mean you open trades before the event starts, based on form /research (ie u/o, match winner, laying draw etc) and close out during play ?
Does this work well enough for you to make a living out of it ?
Cheers
H

[SamWilson82]

"it seems that the only limit to stop yourself making a huge mistake is having the money to cover the next pip as it will always bounce at least 1 retraction or 2 somewhere along the line"

Personally i think this is the wrong attitude to have when tackling the Markets. All markets are different and to think that simply increasing stakes and hoping for a 1 tick retraction is a dangerous tactic, especially when the figures get bigger and bigger.

[lockhud]

Hi Sam

that's what my instinct is telling me that possibly that is a bad idea to go with, however on the flip side of the coin no-one can make a 100% winning trade so where would it stand on that, where is the amount you should go to etc? larger stakes as mentioned could potentially create a huge loss but whilst still learning you can't be right all the time so you must allow for corrections?

[Dia Lucrii]

The best bet is to write down your trading method and then test it. If you are doubling up to bring the average back closer to your start point you must have an 'out' incorporated for the odd trade that never stops going against you. Or it's bye bye to a fair chunk of your bank. Your system might be able to withstand the odd enormous loss because over time it has a 'positive expectation' (worth googling this phrase and reading some of the literature out there).

Once you have tested your method for a bit then you will have a decent idea if it has a positive or negative expectation. Then you tweak it etc.

re: size of bank, this will only come from testing your system - you should know within a day or two mate.

Happy trading!

[lockhud]

Thanks for the replies everyone i've altered my thinking somewhat about the 1/2 tick retraction and as you have stated it could be a dangerous tactic to employ, however upon further testing it out would it be fair to say you don't need to double etc on every tick for example if you enter market at 4.5 and it goes against you, you don't have to have a position at 4.4, 4.3 etc if it drop to say 4.0 you can enter the market here at an increased stake to the original and then be able to trade out, although similar to as before you haven;t a position at each point eg 4.4,4.3 etc to cover therefore when it does get bigger stakes its obviously easier to trade out?