Overcoming gambling addiction

[marketraisen]

Even if it doesn't qualify as being a problem gambler as such, since it isn't impacting your life and economy in a negative way, it's still the first step there, in gambling money you're not intending to time and again.

I've been there in the past as I said earlier, it sounds like a lot of us have, I was able to beat the fully destructive gambling problem a few years ago by learning to win v the bookmakers, thus losing the taste for dumping money on random rubbish, its never even been close to coming back thankfully.
viewtopic.php?p=171058#p171058

Between 2004 and 2015, I lost around 45-50,000 pound as a degenerate compulsive gambler, in the same way most gamblers lose, stupid sports bets, poker games etc. Mid 2015 -Late 2016, I made a profit across all platforms of about 11-12,000, which only stopped when I was barred from betting on every decent bookmakers site and even the high streets, all I had left was the exchange and in that time I've used two debit cards to deposit, currently the deposits and withdrawals-
Deposited: 22,222.94
Withdrawn: 20,943.60
Net Deposits: 1,279.34
I'd imagine theres posters on here who have done much worse than that but the worst of the gambling suicide I went through for years is long gone, I have zero will to return there.

All of those bets really were the fun, "recreational" bets I want to stop.

- Decide what your goal is here. And feck off with (specific) numbers! Those are nice, once they're actually in your bank account, but very much secondary at this point. Is the goal to: Prove you can beat the market/the system? Make lots of money? Make a bit of extra money?

Been thinking again all day about what my goals are long term and they are a combination of all three of your questions. I want to prove I can do it, I want to make money doing it and I want to do it for a long time.

I have no interest in making it serious second income to the point theres a reliance on it, in the same way that I have no interest in any stock holdings eventually being a second income or paying a mortgage becoming a second income. Not everyone having a kickaround in the park is trying to be a professional footballer and should thus stop kicking footballs completely, I want the automation to be a challenging hobby I can speak to other gamblers about.

I appreciate all of the advice thats been posted and I know the intention is good, when people hear "gambling addiction" there is a rush to dive in and try to save somebody from themselves, which speaks volumes for the posters here but I'm not even remotely close to the caricature of the ruined slots junkie. My situation is more akin to a golfer being frustrated that they keep dropping shots on the last holes whenever hes ahead from the first 16, purely because he is ahead and loses focus, telling the guy to give up golf forever is stupid.

[marketraisen]

Trying to break that connections with a few "do this and do that" doesn't work. But the brain is flexible enough to change. So you're not doomed.

I've heard this a few times this week, mainly from poker players who are trying to quit or change their mindset, Its something I need to work on and it wont be easy to switch off seeing profits as 'free' money when I'm nowhere near my goals yet but I think I'll be able to do it.

[ShaunWhite]

it wont be easy to switch off seeing profits as 'free' money when I'm nowhere near my goals yet but I think I'll be able to do it.

With a gambling history like the one you've described, I'm curious as to how you can use terms like 'profit' and 'free money'.

Do you keep detailed stats? Hardcore hobbyists of all types love the minutiae, esp men, so maybe keeping your year to date chart heading north will become more satisfying than the pleasure you get from spending your 'profit'. A sustainable hobby also needs a monthly budget, but when it's gone it's gone....and when it has you'll wish you'd kept a few of those spare fivers from last month to play with.

I know you said you only want a proverbial kick-around, but even people having a kick-around don't want to look like a wally doing it and nobody starts a hobby planning to be crap. So get serious about it, be nerdy with your results and find pleasure in doing it to the best of your ability because chances are this isn't a hobby that's going to make you any money.

[marketraisen]

it wont be easy to switch off seeing profits as 'free' money when I'm nowhere near my goals yet but I think I'll be able to do it.

With a gambling history like the one you've described, I'm curious as to how you can use terms like 'profit' and 'free money'.

Different era's, different income sources, different strategies, was a different person.

Me learning how to make a profit in 2015 was the end of the line for everything that went on before, its ok to segregate your various gambling or money pursuits and for me I dont even consider pre and post 2015 the same thing.

Look at it like somebody changing their job. If somebody goes from earning £10 an hour as a postie for 10 years, then retrains as a welder and starts making £20 an hour for the next 2 years, when asked how much they earn nobody is going to say "well I get £20 per hour as a welder but I spent 10 years on half that so really my hourly rate is about £11-12 per hour for working". Theyre different jobs, even though both are classed as jobs, the person moved on.

I know you said you only want a proverbial kick-around, but even people having a kick-around don't want to look like a wally doing it and nobody starts a hobby planning to be crap.
[/quote]
Not sure where that assumption came from, Im not just starting, I do all the ott analysis as is, I just havent talked about it as its not what this topic was about. I want to stop seeing the fallout from the bot being seen as unearned money, which Im making progress with quickly thanks to help from the board.

I have a bot that has been profitable for months (things change, I know), it didnt spawn out of pure chance, there was a lot of deliberate theory and testing going on leading to its creation. I'm also doing a couple of things that I havent seen posted on here before so theres hope for the future.

Nobody is perfect, we all need to improve.

[Derek27]

Gambling with money made trading, tell me how to stop this please, I need help!

.....

Am I doomed?

Your tone seems to have changed quite a lot from your first panicky post.

[wearthefoxhat]

A daily mindset that works for me (not everybody) can be broken down to 3 elements;

1. Grow
2. Give
3. Celebrate

1. Grow

This one is ongoing, it could take the form of a new hobby/interest, getting better at an existing one, learn from past mistakes or others' past mistakes, aim to be the best you can be in general terms..etc

2. Give

It could be a charitable based option, or time to others that needs it, a helping hand to friends/family, also giving back to yourself by not beating yourself up when things go wrong.

3. Celebrate

Enjoy your successes either on your own or share with others, you could spoil yourself rotten or spoil a loved one, get drunk or just count your blessings at the end of the day. You can even do what Steve "interesting" Davis used to, and have that special sandwich as a reward after clearing the table with a 100 break at the practice table.

You catch the gist, just convert it into something that could work for you.

[marketraisen]

Your tone seems to have changed quite a lot from your first panicky post.

I dont think it reads panicky, I think I broke down my journey here fine but I was frustrated, the 'gambling addiction' is a real thing but there is a sliding scale in terms of how severe it is, people just assume the worst with the best intentions.

[marketraisen]

A daily mindset that works for me (not everybody) can be broken down to 3 elements;

1. Grow
2. Give
3. Celebrate
.......

You catch the gist, just convert it into something that could work for you.

Thank you, I will, if I'm not going to 'reward' myself with stupid bets but I will find something to do.

Today so far, I have been middling around up and down but whats been good is that even though theres been sport on all day, I've not even looked at betting on anything even with small stakes. All these stupid signs around the desktop are working, it seems just thinking about not betting has worked so far.

[marketraisen]

Just been going over my recent results, made a graph going back my last 1050(ish) automated trades but couldnt go further given what a mess it became in my betfair history with too many non-spreadsheet bets muddying the water.

The blue lines are what my BF balance wouldve been if left alone over the period (calculated to include commission paid), the red is my actual balance.

The green boxes are my biggest swings with blind gambling, the red box is the continuation of the previous 2 months, with most of the jumps back to 1000 being me depositing. Post the second green box was the day after I started this topic, with it now riding the waves the spreadsheet spits out.

Forgetting the time before that, as it was a complete mess with constant bets and small deposits, just on this graph alone I am about 800 behind where I wouldve been and thats AFTER depositing 700+ extra If I spent a few hours going over the previous 2 months I'd probably find that doubled again, it was the big 400+deposit that triggered me into trying to fight the urge to piss money against the wall.

I've printed this and put it beside my computer

[ruthlessimon]

Massive kudos for having that graph. This is one of those rare occasions (imo) where the forum could actually genuinely cure your error & get that balance where it should be

In fact that graph is such a brilliant idea - not just for automaton gurus (as I'd class you), but also for manual traders.

As best we can: - quantify what we know, & have that "automated benchmark" in place. & any manual trading which falls below that line - is a genuine sign of a psychological issue.

[marketraisen]

Massive kudos for having that graph. This is one of those rare occasions (imo) where the forum could actually genuinely cure your error & get that balance where it should be

For me specifically I'd say that its easy given that theres clear signs of progress in the blue, its visually a massive kick in the b*llocks. I doubt if I had found the sweet spot in my automation it would have the same effect, I'd keep lying to myself that I was paying for an education and learning all the time, which is an excuse a lot use to forgive loses.

A less refined version of the automation went through a similar path in 2017 for the 3 months I trialled it but I had less patience and commitment at the time, as although profitable it wasnt massively profitable. It was actually built to place regular punting back or lay bets on certain market conditions but turned into 'trading' when I found I was almost always beating SP in both directions.

Visually seeing this again is a bit stark, it might even be worth going back to 2000 and 3000 automated trades to see the difference just for my own morbid punishment for being a degenerate loose gambler. The only reason I didnt as before the start of the graph I was doing some manual trading on top of the automated stuff, including closing my own trades manually the spreadsheet would place, so its a bit tedious to separate my idiocy out, I know what it would look like anyway.

[ShaunWhite]

I haven't been following every word of this thread but it reminded me of this Why Traders Intentionally Make Mistakes, I don't know if it's relevant. I've linked to just after the preamble.

You're competant, fully aware but ....

If nothing else it's a reminder how how crap home video recording was in 07

[gutuami]

I haven't been following every word of this thread but it reminded me of this Why Traders Intentionally Make Mistakes, I don't know if it's relevant. I've linked to just after the preamble.

You're competant, fully aware but ....

If nothing else it's a reminder how how crap home video recording was in 07

it was very hard to listen him to the end as is talking nonsense. Absolute rubbish. As he said it is something that "occurred" to him.

[ShaunWhite]

it was very hard to listen him to the end as is talking nonsense. Absolute rubbish. As he said it is something that "occurred" to him.

Other people's opinions, motivations and life experiences are entirely their own. It's not laid out as a 'fact' that can be discounted as 'absolute rubbish' or otherwise.

If it doesn't tally with your own mindset then that's not at all suprising because everyone is different to some extent or another. It doesn't especially chime with me either, but I can see how it might to some.

[marketraisen]

I haven't been following every word of this thread but it reminded me of this Why Traders Intentionally Make Mistakes, I don't know if it's relevant. I've linked to just after the preamble.

I enjoyed the lads thoughts, it mirrors a lot of the content on youtube for poker players who are losing despite being good players, the addiction is to the anticipation and fear of missing out.

The advice they give poker players is to not dwell on all the times you made a loose call and won but rather to focus on the times you went in loose and lost, the same thought process is what I'm trying to drill into myself, with the visual aids its working so far.