Hi everyone,
I've just started playing around with Betangel properly the 2 days or so. So much to learn, but starting to get my head around it. Was primarily tweaking the Betdaq version live (I don't have any money in Betdaq for the moment till I figure out what every button does!
I've come from a crypto and (to a lesser extent) forex background so not new to trading in general but I am new to sports trading (Though I've done a bit of matched betting so have a Betfair, Betdaq and Matchbook account)
There's a few things I'm trying figure out and which I'm trying to transfer across from my trading knowledge in other fields, so am trying to fill the gaps in my knowledge here.
1) Firstly if I scale into a trade and average down the price, will this average price be correctly reflected on the p/l number at the top of each selection on the ladder?
2) So essentially greening up is the same as "cash out" on betfair? So for example I've seen on videos where I think the green up button was pressed and then on the left hand side the p/l figures where all suddenly the same, indicating all trades had been cashed out/equalised and this was now guaranteed profit?
3) I'm used to placing limit or market orders, so it seems like sports exchanges appear not to work in quite the same way, it looks like you can only place the equivilant of limit orders on the exchanges, using Betangel is there a way to execute a market order where you take the price currently at the top of the orderbook immediately? I couldn't spot this obviously at a percusory glance, though it may not be possible given how exchanges work.
4) So I've watched some videos where people have been discussing taking a trade in play after having a profitable position. Now what I saw was that these people have a "Risk free bet" Whats the main difference between free bet and green up position? Could someone give me an example of the different maths behind the two?
Look forward to your responses!
Come from a crypto/forex background- & trying to understand Betangel scaling in/ averaging down; free bet vs cashout...
(1) The P&L is your Betfair P&L not the trade P&L. You need to look in the trade profit column on the ladder, if that's what you are using.1) Firstly if I scale into a trade and average down the price, will this average price be correctly reflected on the p/l number at the top of each selection on the ladder?
2) So essentially greening up is the same as "cash out" on betfair? So for example I've seen on videos where I think the green up button was pressed and then on the left hand side the p/l figures where all suddenly the same, indicating all trades had been cashed out/equalised and this was now guaranteed profit?
3) I'm used to placing limit or market orders, so it seems like sports exchanges appear not to work in quite the same way, it looks like you can only place the equivilant of limit orders on the exchanges, using Betangel is there a way to execute a market order where you take the price currently at the top of the orderbook immediately? I couldn't spot this obviously at a percusory glance, though it may not be possible given how exchanges work.
4) So I've watched some videos where people have been discussing taking a trade in play after having a profitable position. Now what I saw was that these people have a "Risk free bet" Whats the main difference between free bet and green up position? Could someone give me an example of the different maths behind the two?
(2) Yes
(3) You just back or lay below or above the current price.
(4) When you lay at a lower price than you back you create a free bet, as your liability is lower than your payout. If you leave this as it is, you will only win if that selections wins. But if you hedge it you will win regardless of your result.
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northbound
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm
To give you some examples:
(3) If current best back odds for a Nadal win are 1.50 (with £20 available) then 1.49 (£35) then 1.48 (£755). To back Nadal at best market price, simply enter a back order of £100 at, say, 1.30. Your stake will be matched:
£20 at 1.50
£35 at 1.49
£45 at 1.48
(4) Let’s say you back Federer (vs Nadal) at 2.30 with £100 and lay him at 2.00 with £100, your potential P/L will look like:
Federer +£30.00
Nadal £0.00
You have a free bet on Federer. The odds of 2.00 are telling us that Federer has a 50% chance of winning the match (100% divided by 2.00).
You could keep the free bet until the end of the match. Over a big sample, 50% of the time you’d win £30, 50% of the time you’d lose nothing.
Or you could greenup for £15 (£30 / current odds of 2.00) and win £15 whatever the outcome of the match.
(3) If current best back odds for a Nadal win are 1.50 (with £20 available) then 1.49 (£35) then 1.48 (£755). To back Nadal at best market price, simply enter a back order of £100 at, say, 1.30. Your stake will be matched:
£20 at 1.50
£35 at 1.49
£45 at 1.48
(4) Let’s say you back Federer (vs Nadal) at 2.30 with £100 and lay him at 2.00 with £100, your potential P/L will look like:
Federer +£30.00
Nadal £0.00
You have a free bet on Federer. The odds of 2.00 are telling us that Federer has a 50% chance of winning the match (100% divided by 2.00).
You could keep the free bet until the end of the match. Over a big sample, 50% of the time you’d win £30, 50% of the time you’d lose nothing.
Or you could greenup for £15 (£30 / current odds of 2.00) and win £15 whatever the outcome of the match.
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dragonsfire1981
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:27 am
Thanks for both your replies, much appreciated! Will reply seperately to some of your helpful points as need a little more clarification shortly.
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dragonsfire1981
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:27 am
Think I get it, but just want to clarify. Okay so Betfair P&L we're referring to the equalised current profit (or pending profit if not cashed out yet) across all runners in a horse race for example, and this would be the figure which is shown on the green up button and the figure to the furthest left columns which will all look the same once green up is pressed? The trade P&L is simply the figure shown on the furthest left column on that single horse for example?
>>1) The P&L is your Betfair P&L not the trade P&L. You need to look in the trade profit column on the ladder, if that's what you are using.
Got it
>>(3) You just back or lay below or above the current price.
Hedging= Greening up= equalising profits right? So Betangel will place the appropriate trades across all horse runners essentially?
>>4) When you lay at a lower price than you back you create a free bet, as your liability is lower than your payout. If you leave this as it is, you will only win if that selections wins. But if you hedge it you will win regardless of your result.
[/quote]
[/quote]
(1) The P&L is your Betfair P&L not the trade P&L. You need to look in the trade profit column on the ladder, if that's what you are using.
(2) Yes
(3) You just back or lay below or above the current price.
(4) When you lay at a lower price than you back you create a free bet, as your liability is lower than your payout. If you leave this as it is, you will only win if that selections wins. But if you hedge it you will win regardless of your result.
[/quote]
>>1) The P&L is your Betfair P&L not the trade P&L. You need to look in the trade profit column on the ladder, if that's what you are using.
Got it
>>(3) You just back or lay below or above the current price.
Hedging= Greening up= equalising profits right? So Betangel will place the appropriate trades across all horse runners essentially?
>>4) When you lay at a lower price than you back you create a free bet, as your liability is lower than your payout. If you leave this as it is, you will only win if that selections wins. But if you hedge it you will win regardless of your result.
[/quote]
[/quote]
(1) The P&L is your Betfair P&L not the trade P&L. You need to look in the trade profit column on the ladder, if that's what you are using.
(2) Yes
(3) You just back or lay below or above the current price.
(4) When you lay at a lower price than you back you create a free bet, as your liability is lower than your payout. If you leave this as it is, you will only win if that selections wins. But if you hedge it you will win regardless of your result.
[/quote]
A few of these posts may also help
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11408
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11571
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11572
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11408
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11571
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11572
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dragonsfire1981
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:27 am
Understood, ta.
>>(3) If current best back odds for a Nadal win are 1.50 (with £20 available) then 1.49 (£35) then 1.48 (£755). To back Nadal at best market price, simply enter a back order of £100 at, say, 1.30. Your stake will be matched:
£20 at 1.50
£35 at 1.49
£45 at 1.48
Okay that makes sense. With the greening up, there would be seperate a hedge trade put on Nadal then that BA automatically calculates I'm assuming?
>>(4) Let’s say you back Federer (vs Nadal) at 2.30 with £100 and lay him at 2.00 with £100, your potential P/L will look like:
Federer +£30.00
Nadal £0.00
You have a free bet on Federer. The odds of 2.00 are telling us that Federer has a 50% chance of winning the match (100% divided by 2.00).
You could keep the free bet until the end of the match. Over a big sample, 50% of the time you’d win £30, 50% of the time you’d lose nothing.
Or you could greenup for £15 (£30 / current odds of 2.00) and win £15 whatever the outcome of the match.
[/quote]
>>(3) If current best back odds for a Nadal win are 1.50 (with £20 available) then 1.49 (£35) then 1.48 (£755). To back Nadal at best market price, simply enter a back order of £100 at, say, 1.30. Your stake will be matched:
£20 at 1.50
£35 at 1.49
£45 at 1.48
Okay that makes sense. With the greening up, there would be seperate a hedge trade put on Nadal then that BA automatically calculates I'm assuming?
>>(4) Let’s say you back Federer (vs Nadal) at 2.30 with £100 and lay him at 2.00 with £100, your potential P/L will look like:
Federer +£30.00
Nadal £0.00
You have a free bet on Federer. The odds of 2.00 are telling us that Federer has a 50% chance of winning the match (100% divided by 2.00).
You could keep the free bet until the end of the match. Over a big sample, 50% of the time you’d win £30, 50% of the time you’d lose nothing.
Or you could greenup for £15 (£30 / current odds of 2.00) and win £15 whatever the outcome of the match.
[/quote]
northbound wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 pmTo give you some examples:
(3) If current best back odds for a Nadal win are 1.50 (with £20 available) then 1.49 (£35) then 1.48 (£755). To back Nadal at best market price, simply enter a back order of £100 at, say, 1.30. Your stake will be matched:
£20 at 1.50
£35 at 1.49
£45 at 1.48
(4) Let’s say you back Federer (vs Nadal) at 2.30 with £100 and lay him at 2.00 with £100, your potential P/L will look like:
Federer +£30.00
Nadal £0.00
You have a free bet on Federer. The odds of 2.00 are telling us that Federer has a 50% chance of winning the match (100% divided by 2.00).
You could keep the free bet until the end of the match. Over a big sample, 50% of the time you’d win £30, 50% of the time you’d lose nothing.
Or you could greenup for £15 (£30 / current odds of 2.00) and win £15 whatever the outcome of the match.
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dragonsfire1981
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:27 am
Thanks will bookmark and read shortly!
Dallas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:33 pmA few of these posts may also help
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11408
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11571
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11572
Welcomedragonsfire1981 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:41 pm4) So I've watched some videos where people have been discussing taking a trade in play after having a profitable position.
You may want to have a look at this Youtube playlist, it was made for this exact purpose :
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... BF0E87274B
There's also a free Betfair Trading Crash Course that you can check out here :
https://online.betangelacademy.com/cour ... ash-course
I think you'll learn faster from videos than from text at this point, these should answer many questions that you haven't even thought of asking yet, but be careful what type of videos you watch, there is a lot of misleading stuff on Youtube. Since you're using Bet Angel it's probably best to stick to the official channel, all the topics are covered anyway so you'll never run out of videos to watch. Best of luck and enjoy the ride, I'm almost jealous
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dragonsfire1981
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:27 am
Okay thanks, saved the playlist. I've been collecting many of Peter's videos into different playlists of my own, watched about an hours worth last night, starting to click slowly but surely...
Next step is to make some initial practice mode trades then live ones. I think I know what my strategy will be but actually need to have some time in the car first
Next step is to make some initial practice mode trades then live ones. I think I know what my strategy will be but actually need to have some time in the car first
Kai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:46 pmWelcomedragonsfire1981 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:41 pm4) So I've watched some videos where people have been discussing taking a trade in play after having a profitable position.
You may want to have a look at this Youtube playlist, it was made for this exact purpose :
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... BF0E87274B
There's also a free Betfair Trading Crash Course that you can check out here :
https://online.betangelacademy.com/cour ... ash-course
I think you'll learn faster from videos than from text at this point, these should answer many questions that you haven't even thought of asking yet, but be careful what type of videos you watch, there is a lot of misleading stuff on Youtube. Since you're using Bet Angel it's probably best to stick to the official channel, all the topics are covered anyway so you'll never run out of videos to watch. Best of luck and enjoy the ride, I'm almost jealous