EU Membership Referendum (Brexit)

[Kafkaesque]

There is nothing wrong with our democracy. Remainers would clearly state that it’s working as it should.

But I can assure you that if they win as seems certain that the country will not be brought back together in the next 20 or so years.

Many will join far right groups and some will take matters to the extreme.

But that’s a democracy and many will argue a price worth paying.

I fear that Joe Cox death wont be the last after the dust has settled.

There’s allot of angry people out there and will be for some time to come......

To be clear, I did not say - or at least mean - that there's something wrong with your democracy, on a larger scale. It is simply being made to look so at present. By the actions of both sides.

The only major "democratic" issue I would have is how Cambridge Analytica's role hasn't led to more of a serious look into whether a second referendum would be the most democratic thing to do.

It's also was not an anti-British rant in any way. As I'm sure, I've stated on here before, England is as close to a second home as anywhere in the World for me. I have many friends on your shores and come over several times a year. It simply saddens me to see all this going this far, with no end in sight

[Nero Tulip]

maybe i'm displaying my own bias, which is that i like trading votes.. i'd have one once a month if possible..

[BetBuddy]

There is nothing wrong with our democracy. Remainers would clearly state that it’s working as it should.

But I can assure you that if they win as seems certain that the country will not be brought back together in the next 20 or so years.

Many will join far right groups and some will take matters to the extreme.

But that’s a democracy and many will argue a price worth paying.

I fear that Joe Cox death wont be the last after the dust has settled.

There’s allot of angry people out there and will be for some time to come......

To be clear, I did not say - or at least mean - that there's something wrong with your democracy, on a larger scale. It is simply being made to look so at present. By the actions of both sides.

The only major "democratic" issue I would have is how Cambridge Analytica's role hasn't led to more of a serious look into whether a second referendum would be the most democratic thing to do.

It's also was not an anti-British rant in any way. As I'm sure, I've stated on here before, England is as close to a second home as anywhere in the World for me. I have many friends on your shores and come over several times a year. It simply saddens me to see all this going this far, with no end in sight

The matter isn't going to go away until the majority of the age group who voted Brexit have passed away. So, probably in 30 to 50 years time. One thing is for sure, allot of people are just going to switch off from Politics all together, which i think most would agree is a very bad thing. Although given the current level of expertise in Parliament, who would blame them. Reminds me of something out of the muppet show.

Is / Was Europe ever the UK's friend, don't think so. Didn't the French sell and ship 800 Exocet missiles to Argentina during the Falkland's war in 1982 ?

One thing is for sure, i don't think the EU is going to be getting any security information from the 5 eyed group of countries anytime soon....

[Emmson]

I strongly suspect someone here has been posting on this thread with 2 different usernames, the themes are all the same.

[Emmson]

"FRANCE was Britain's greatest ally during the Falklands war, providing secret information to enable MI6 agents to sabotage Exocet missiles which were desperately sought by Argentina, according to Sir John Nott, who was Defence Secretary during the conflict."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... -Nott.html

[BetBuddy]

"FRANCE was Britain's greatest ally during the Falklands war, providing secret information to enable MI6 agents to sabotage Exocet missiles which were desperately sought by Argentina, according to Sir John Nott, who was Defence Secretary during the conflict."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... -Nott.html

Get your facts right before posting rubbish sir.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17256975

"We asked Mitterrand not to give assistance to the Argentinians. If you're asking me: 'Are the French duplicitous people?' the answer is: 'Of course they are, and they always have been.'"

[Emmson]

France did not sell exocet missiles to Argentina during the Falkands War. Israel was the real villain with arms sales. So France was playing a double game during the Falklands War, mostly helping Britain with some rogue elements helping Argentina. A revelation that is not.

As if Britain has never played double games on the world stage.

What has this got to do with Brexit? absolutely nothing!

[SweetLyrics]

Imagine you're Labour's chief negotiator.

You say to the EU, 'We would like you to give us your best deal possible, so that we can put that deal to the British people as an alternative to staying the EU'.

If you were the EU, would you:

A. Offer Britain the best deal you possibly can, because you believe in fair play, and you don't mind sacrificing your own interests in the name of being sporting?

B. Offer a deal that's as bad as the deal you offered May, if not worse, as you want the British public to vote Remain?

Thornberry was being dishonest when she claimed on QT that it would be in the EU's interests to give us a good deal. It isn't. In negotiation, you only offer someone a good deal because they will walk away from the table if you offer them a bad deal.

Charity doesn't exist in international trade deal negotiations any more than it does in car dealership showrooms.

You're right, it's really not hard to understand with a clear head, there's nothing wrong with their logic. I just think 99% of people around the country are so mangled by their biases that the wood is very much hidden by the trees.

[burntheory]

The matter isn't going to go away until the majority of the age group who voted Brexit have passed away. So, probably in 30 to 50 years time.

By which time, the majority of those who voted remain will have gained enough experience and wisdom to vote leave...and/or the EU will already have collapsed under the weight of its own hubris and dysfunctionality.

[greenmark]

The irony of the EU's position is if we leave with no deal their own rules require a hard border (for vetting of livestock and animal products) between NI and Eire. If they choose a different solution we'll know for sure the backstop was just a ploy. That is, they can be flexible when it suits them.

[SweetLyrics]

+1

Exactly. If it weren't for the NI border issue, they'd find another roadblock.

The irony of the EU's position is if we leave with no deal their own rules require a hard border (for vetting of livestock and animal products) between NI and Eire. If they choose a different solution we'll know for sure the backstop was just a ploy. That is, they can be flexible when it suits them.

[sionascaig]

A little bit stunned by this market U/ O (0.5) market for number of seats for Brexit Party at next election... Even if they do a pack with the conservatives surely likely to get more than 0.5 seats?

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/p ... .162087718...

Anyhoo, the border issue with NI will all be very small beer compared with the border issue with Scotland - looking forward to hearing how the problem can't be solved by the same people who dripping with technological solutions for NI...

Carthago delenda est

[SweetLyrics]

I am of of those people 'dripping with technological solutions' as you put it, and I think that they would be the way forward with a Scottish border (although I hope that Scotland would bear the cost of them, given that they would be making them necessary).

Otherwise, it would be a case of, to paraphrase Trump: 'We gonna build a wall! And who's going to pay for it? The English!'.

Anyhoo, the border issue with NI will all be very small beer compared with the border issue with Scotland - looking forward to hearing how the problem can't be solved by the same people who dripping with technological solutions for NI...

Carthago delenda est

[greenmark]

I am of of those people 'dripping with technological solutions' as you put it, and I think that they would be the way forward with a Scottish border (although I hope that Scotland would bear the cost of them, given that they would be making them necessary).

Otherwise, it would be a case of, to paraphrase Trump: 'We gonna build a wall! And who's going to pay for it? The English!'.

Anyhoo, the border issue with NI will all be very small beer compared with the border issue with Scotland - looking forward to hearing how the problem can't be solved by the same people who dripping with technological solutions for NI...

Carthago delenda est

It would be great If you could find time to post up some links for those tech solutions. I've searched high and low and am aware that the EU say none exist. But then they would, wouldn't they as it is their ace card.
I honestly think there will be a delay, BJ will reconfigure the Tory party to be "our deal, or deal", then election and he'll win a majority. The EU will not yield (impossible as it would threaten the EU's future unity).
So I believe we're out with no deal in January.

[BetBuddy]

I am of of those people 'dripping with technological solutions' as you put it, and I think that they would be the way forward with a Scottish border (although I hope that Scotland would bear the cost of them, given that they would be making them necessary).

Otherwise, it would be a case of, to paraphrase Trump: 'We gonna build a wall! And who's going to pay for it? The English!'.

Anyhoo, the border issue with NI will all be very small beer compared with the border issue with Scotland - looking forward to hearing how the problem can't be solved by the same people who dripping with technological solutions for NI...

Carthago delenda est

It would be great If you could find time to post up some links for those tech solutions. I've searched high and low and am aware that the EU say none exist. But then they would, wouldn't they as it is their ace card.
I honestly think there will be a delay, BJ will reconfigure the Tory party to be "our deal, or deal", then election and he'll win a majority. The EU will not yield (impossible as it would threaten the EU's future unity).
So I believe we're out with no deal in January.

Suggestion: https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ ... -backstop/