Blew over half my bank last weekend - need advice!

[Kai]

The interview itself went well, but a week later I got the email "while you are clearly very intelligent, and have the same interests as us, we simply cannot find a right fit for you at this time".

It's very interesting how they were able to measure your intelligence by glancing at your CV and asking a few questions

Intelligence in general is obviously a good thing to have in your arsenal, when used correctly ( ) and a detriment when used incorrectly, although persistence and determination might actually be more valuable traits when it comes to trading, like one of my favorite quotes says. However, if you are both endlessly determined and clever enough to point that persistence in the right direction then you can become unstoppable. So if you were able to trade large amounts of markets in a very short space of time then maybe you posses a bit of persistence, but trading is a marathon and not a sprint, very few are able to make a quick dash for the finish line and succeed right away.

Probably a good thing. If I got the job, I'd be ruining my health for 6 months watching / trading tennis in the early hours of night broadcast from the other side of the planet. They explicitly asked me if I am ok coming into the office at antisocial / night hours.

I think it's also important to not lose sight of your goal no matter what, and that's something that people can easily do in moments of weakness, desperation and so on. I'm sure that for most of us the whole point of sports trading is to not work for anyone else but ourselves, and to fully enjoy all of the freedoms that come with it. My point being is that getting turned down there might end up being a blessing in disguise, but either way I wish you the best of luck on your journey

[ruthlessimon]

at least it might have been over half their bank that got blown instead of yours.

These firms (albeit financial) (at interview) literally ask for your edge, & if said person can't explain it objectively, they won't back you - rightly.

https://youtu.be/TQb9t2ltVuU?t=367

06:07 - 07:14

My takeaway:

"There's too much, particularly in the retail space, where people have this unverifiable feel for what they do well. This is the data age (2014..). You shouldn't say 'I know it when I see it'; because I don't know what that means. When we interview people, even if they have a track record, if they can't tell me the variables of the setups they like best, we don't hire them."

[ShaunWhite]

Probably a good thing. If I got the job, I'd be ruining my health for 6 months watching / trading tennis in the early hours of night broadcast from the other side of the planet. They explicitly asked me if I am ok coming into the office at antisocial / night hours.

Sounds perfect. There's nothing unhealthy about nighttime, I do 90% of my work between midnight and 6am (peaceful, quiet and no distractions). And that way I have 1pm until midnight free everyday if I want. I worked a regular job for over 25yrs and always resented being tied to a desk in the daytime when I could be doing more interesting things. This way everyday is a day off.

[ShaunWhite]

These firms (albeit financial) (at interview) literally ask for your edge, & if said person can't explain it objectively, they won't back you - rightly.

That's as much to do with proving you know what an edge is rather than them buying you and your edge as a package deal. It's the same as when firms ask for a degree, they don't want your knowledge (what you learn on a degree course isn't exactly top secret) what it proves is your capacity to learn and self sufficiency. Tbh if a candidate arrives with a proven 'edge' it's not much use to them unless you sign over the intellectual copywrite, they're much more interested in your ability to develop new edges for them.

Also, when you work for financial institutions (from person experience) part of your contract stipulates that anything you think of at anytime (not just during the 9-5) belongs to them. If you have a bright idea on holiday, it's theirs, if you have an idea at the weekend, it's theirs. That's why the wages are decent because when you eventually leave all you take with you are the skills you arrived with.... and then the contract also says that you can't work for anyone in the same niche for at least 6 months or a year. It's not surprising that arch capitalist demand their pound of flesh.

[ruthlessimon]

Tbh if a candidate arrives with a proven 'edge' it's not much use to them unless you sign over the intellectual copywrite, they're much more interested in your ability to develop new edges for them.

I do agree with that. Indeed yah.

Although, none of us one-man-bands can escape that need for development either!!

[ShaunWhite]

My takeaway:

"There's too much, particularly in the retail space, where people have this unverifiable feel for what they do well. This is the data age (2014..). You shouldn't say 'I know it when I see it'; because I don't know what that means. When we interview people, even if they have a track record, if they can't tell me the variables of the setups they like best, we don't hire them."

Is that surprising? Take 100 people who are guessing and a handful will get amazing results, with zero evidence they can repeat it. It's like hiring sparkies, if they can't prove they can calculate loads then the fact the houses they've rewired in the past didn't burn down is luck or due to being over engineered and therfore not cost effective.

But don't completely right off track record, if someone has got 10yrs of top 10 results they might not be able to quantify what they do, but they'll be hired so that someone else in the firm can quantify it.

[Kai]

I worked a regular job for over 25yrs and always resented being tied to a desk in the daytime when I could be doing more interesting things. This way everyday is a day off.

I'd imagine that this is the ultimate dream for many, working at your own pace and enjoying a lifestyle from which you don't need a break. Trading gives you the ability to build your own unique lifestyle around the markets that you're trading and that's my favorite thing about it.

Nearly everyone is able to give trading a proper go, albeit with the odds stacked heavily against them at the start, but the majority of people will say something along the lines of "well I tried and failed, therefore I give up". Although you could arguably say that the real work only starts once you have failed and that success in large part depends on your reaction, it can be like a war of attrition at times and people can get worn out very quickly.

I think OP had a good reaction honestly, he opened a thread with a detailed first ever post and sparked a discussion by openly and humbly asking for all sort of advice about his trading approach and the markets that he's interested in.

[ruthlessimon]

Is that surprising?

Well for me it aint, I completely agree.

but if I had loaned that money as a bank, I'd be bl00dy furious!!!

Personally - I'd ban him from trading the remaining 50%, until something more solid was developed.

The first stage to redemption, being a rigorous appraisal of the core strategy (possibly requiring access high level data). Working out just wtf happened to lose 50% in 2days..... Is this actually an edge? Is this actually workable longterm? Or is this a psychological problem?

The second stage, trying to co-opt with traders trading a similar niche. Explain the strategy idea, what would they advise, meet ups etc. But getting a foot in the door though - that's hard (a good network may take yr's/never)

But don't completely right off track record, if someone has got 10yrs of top 10 results they might not be able to quantify what they do, but they'll be hired so that someone else in the firm can quantify it.

Hence why I've learnt to never write off any objective advice (even if I can't prove it/wildly disagree). when times are hard/bored, it could form an avenue, & genuinely new ideas are so difficult to develop.

[Jukebox]

I don't want to make anyone feel worse and this isn't a dig at the OP who has probably had his chops busted enough - but it does occur to me that if you approached the closing stages of a game and decided to back or lay that the score would change to a limit of £10 liability 50/60 times and instead of using your judgement took out a coin to decide which way to go - you would be most unfortunate find yourself £300 down at the end - or am I way off?.

[Kai]

I don't want to make anyone feel worse and this isn't a dig at the OP who has probably had his chops busted enough - but it does occur to me that if you approached the closing stages of a game and decided to back or lay that the score would change to a limit of £10 liability 50/60 times and instead of using your judgement took out a coin to decide which way to go - you would be most unfortunate find yourself £300 down at the end - or am I way off?.

Well OP did mostly look for lower risk trades so it's not a huge surprise that he hit a bad run of results with that approach, plus it sounds like he invested a lot of the profit into jackpots that are even more unlikely to occur. Have previously seen even very experienced guys like Rebelo hit sequences of 15 or so losers in a row with certain low risk strategies.

The looming question remains whether OP is betting with value, and whether his confidence levels can recover from what must be a big hit. Don't think anyone on here is busting his chops for the sake of it, he was looking for constructive criticism and people just want to help out.

[wearthefoxhat]

Probably a good thing. If I got the job, I'd be ruining my health for 6 months watching / trading tennis in the early hours of night broadcast from the other side of the planet. They explicitly asked me if I am ok coming into the office at antisocial / night hours.

Sounds perfect. There's nothing unhealthy about nighttime, I do 90% of my work between midnight and 6am (peaceful, quiet and no distractions). And that way I have 1pm until midnight free everyday if I want. I worked a regular job for over 25yrs and always resented being tied to a desk in the daytime when I could be doing more interesting things. This way everyday is a day off.

Amen Shaun..Amen..

[nivi7]

here re my 3 cents


limit your self to 2-4 trades per day
keep your stakes to a small % of your bank
never do otherwise


good luck

[Alexander_99]

Yeah, at least some of these financial / betting firms indeed want some proven evidence of your edge. I spoke to a guy in another sports betting firm, and he did suggest that I should send them my profit and loss statement in order to increase my chances of getting hired. Although I doubt independent successful solo traders would even want to work for these companies in the first place; the only reason I see is to have some "official" employment record / or a chance to work and interact with like-minded people?

I've started making profit again over the last couple of days. Successfully caught late goals and laid match odds in several games, including today's Benfica match. While in other "quiet" games, made some profit backing unders market.

But I feel very disappointed with myself. I wrote earlier than I have missed several opportunities, due to hesitation, in games where I felt there is some value. Repeated the same mistake in Rennes vs Marseille game earlier. I watched the 2nd half and although weren't many chances, I sensed that there is value in backing over 0.5 goals and laying the draw. Over 0.5 market was around 2.4 - 2.5 already on about 70 mins. Too high. I did actually back over 0.5, and very shortly afterwards, a quieter spell came in the game. I felt unsure and decided to cash out with the intention of backing over 0.5 again, a bit later on. And then the goal came just moments after I thought "NOW I should get on this market" and I missed it.

This situation repeats over and over. I think I have some kind of a mental / psychological block that jeopardises my chances of success and contributed in part to my losses. It causes me to hesitate and wait for a perfect moment, instead of simply jumping on the market when I sense some value. And conversely, then I get on the markets in what I perceive to be "weaker" trading opportunities in games, in a perverse effort to "make up" for the potential profits I have missed out on earlier.

[Jukebox]

Do you record your judgement calls so you have something to look back on?
I'm thinking along the lines of rating them out of 10 - eg I rate this opportunity 5/10 and I'm getting paid 7/10 might help.

[trader44]

" . I wrote earlier than I have missed several opportunities, due to hesitation, in games where I felt there is some value."
if your hesitating your scared to lose you need to work on your fear of losing