A bit harsh? LOL. It's absolutely savage, probably the biggest Caaan massacre since James Caaan. Would be surprised (and disappointed) if every future meeting they have doesn't end with a fistfight, cos them's fightin' words.
Psychoff - training course
You shouldn't be too harsh on Psychoff, he found an edge, exploited it and did well from it. That's more than most people who offer education can lay claim to. So you shouldn't lump him into that category.
Obviously, there are mitigating factors at play as to why he would want to do a course, but when we spoke some time ago about his plans I did warn him he would get a rough ride from all quarters and I think he understands that was a price that he would pay.
I didn't know if Ersen wanted to talk about his visa situation, but now that is out there; it's obvious that has a hand to play. But the whole landscape of education is a minefield so it's no real surprise that there has been a big reaction to it. Give Ersen some credit for coming on here and posting.
I honestly think you are damned if you do and damned if you don't with education. I started doing it back in 2004 simply to legitimise what I did and show people the opportunity in the industry. I spent a huge amount of time changing the content to reflect the changing markets, but sometimes it's just not enough for people.
It's impossible for a full-time trader to handhold somebody through the market, so there will always demand for that type of thing. But it can't be fulfilled by somebody that actually does it and some people just don't have the mindset to trade. It takes a huge leap to unwind a mind that can't take a risk and get it to feel comfortable with that.
No matter how good the information you give to somebody, there will plenty that say that what you said was useless to them. I don't know how much time I've wasted trying to convince / show somebody what I do only for them to try and pick holes in it or argue against it. So I've come to the conclusion there is little point in trying to win somebody over in these cases. It's up to the protagonist if they want to live in ignorance or take the opportunity to learn something.
As for pricing, the value will be different for different people. As we all know, there is no golden goose, but people will always be willing to pay for one!
Obviously, there are mitigating factors at play as to why he would want to do a course, but when we spoke some time ago about his plans I did warn him he would get a rough ride from all quarters and I think he understands that was a price that he would pay.
I didn't know if Ersen wanted to talk about his visa situation, but now that is out there; it's obvious that has a hand to play. But the whole landscape of education is a minefield so it's no real surprise that there has been a big reaction to it. Give Ersen some credit for coming on here and posting.
I honestly think you are damned if you do and damned if you don't with education. I started doing it back in 2004 simply to legitimise what I did and show people the opportunity in the industry. I spent a huge amount of time changing the content to reflect the changing markets, but sometimes it's just not enough for people.
It's impossible for a full-time trader to handhold somebody through the market, so there will always demand for that type of thing. But it can't be fulfilled by somebody that actually does it and some people just don't have the mindset to trade. It takes a huge leap to unwind a mind that can't take a risk and get it to feel comfortable with that.
No matter how good the information you give to somebody, there will plenty that say that what you said was useless to them. I don't know how much time I've wasted trying to convince / show somebody what I do only for them to try and pick holes in it or argue against it. So I've come to the conclusion there is little point in trying to win somebody over in these cases. It's up to the protagonist if they want to live in ignorance or take the opportunity to learn something.
As for pricing, the value will be different for different people. As we all know, there is no golden goose, but people will always be willing to pay for one!
As someone who has spoken with him do you think his command of English will be good enough for teaching purposes?
I posted yesterday on the thread about him having to type answers to the pre-planned questions in the video that was linked to earlier as as stated in the video his spoken English was the reason for not using a voice recording. There would have been opportunity to re-record the answers should it have been needed so had I been paying four figure amounts I would be a bit worried about this aspect.
Glad at least Peter agrees, the value is surely there for anyone that wants to see it, and vice versa.
Big reactions can only benefit Psyhoff in the long run, the more people talk about it the better, he obviously has nothing to hide and is extremely transparent about his results and approaches, unlike many others that try to go a similar path. Worst case he lowers the pricing if needed or comes up with a different model etc.
Big reactions can only benefit Psyhoff in the long run, the more people talk about it the better, he obviously has nothing to hide and is extremely transparent about his results and approaches, unlike many others that try to go a similar path. Worst case he lowers the pricing if needed or comes up with a different model etc.
When I first met him back in 2007-9, can't remember exactly when as I'd have to check. he brought a friend as a translator. But his English is just fine now, he has been in the UK for some time and has all the nuances that come with it.As someone who has spoken with him do you think his command of English will be good enough for teaching purposes?
The thing that impressed me most with Ersen is his commitment to trading which is the same as mine. Meeting up is always difficult as we have to find a time when we won't be active on a market and that's a good measure of whether somebody trades seriously. I know he has turned down invites for the same reason, the same as me.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't dump the Grand National for a jolly and Ersen won't give up a decent evening for the same reason. It's a good marker.
Good to hear, odd he didn't do the video spoken then but sounds like it isn't something anyone needs to worry about.
With regards to price I think he would have got criticism whatever price point he went for. Lower, why would someone give up "secrets" for so little, higher, who the hell is going to pay that much for a day.
The market is the best guide imo and I think he has under priced himself given it sold out but I guess it would be hard to judge what price point to pitch it at.
Best of luck to him and all who go on the courses!
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CallumPerry
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:12 pm
To get an opportunity to learn from somebody who has proved themselves in the markets for real would be fantastic but the ONLY problem I see people having is the price. Understandably, this forum is filled with value seeking individuals and for me I have to agree the price is about 10x too much.
Seriously, the price is ridiculous. Approx £100/£200 per attendee is where I'd see value for a basic course. Even if it were Euler himself, I couldn't justify spending 10x that amount + travel + sleep + missing a couple of days from work. Not unless it were 1-1 for as long as I needed... a single day in groups??? I'm sorry, no. Just, no.
I'll be one of the first in line for your classes Peter but please make it a sensible price. Please!
Seriously, the price is ridiculous. Approx £100/£200 per attendee is where I'd see value for a basic course. Even if it were Euler himself, I couldn't justify spending 10x that amount + travel + sleep + missing a couple of days from work. Not unless it were 1-1 for as long as I needed... a single day in groups??? I'm sorry, no. Just, no.
I'll be one of the first in line for your classes Peter but please make it a sensible price. Please!
Price is probably balanced enough for semi-pros that want to make that next step, this is where I see most bang for buck. Anyone less or more than that will most likely struggle to justify the price, particularly non-footy traders. We can debate for 50 more pages but it's already been settled emphatically, the fact that it sold out the following day basically means there really was a market here and that the price was "right".CallumPerry wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:41 pmSeriously, the price is ridiculous. Approx £100/£200 per attendee is where I'd see value for a basic course.
What I'd like to see is a detailed FAQ or something on the website from Psychoff, the more experienced people will want to know exactly what they're going to be taught, and of course whether he'll only be teaching one part of his edge or the whole thing (including the scalping etc).
I don't think you can value a course with Peter the same, what can Peter offer, Horse Racing (Pre-off & In-Running) - Football, Tennis, Cricket... & a wealth of knowlege in every aspect of manual & automation + basically anything with liquidity..... name the price & I guarantee people will pay it, probably people who are already profitable but want to advance some.CallumPerry wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:41 pmTo get an opportunity to learn from somebody who has proved themselves in the markets for real would be fantastic but the ONLY problem I see people having is the price. Understandably, this forum is filled with value seeking individuals and for me I have to agree the price is about 10x too much.
Seriously, the price is ridiculous. Approx £100/£200 per attendee is where I'd see value for a basic course. Even if it were Euler himself, I couldn't justify spending 10x that amount + travel + sleep + missing a couple of days from work. Not unless it were 1-1 for as long as I needed... a single day in groups??? I'm sorry, no. Just, no.
I'll be one of the first in line for your classes Peter but please make it a sensible price. Please!
Get your bids in haha
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Trader Pat
- Posts: 4327
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm
Its the Virgil van Dijk conundrum... £75m was questioned when Liverpool paid it but everybody would agree now it was a bargain.
The money I spent to attend Peter's horse racing workshop back in the day was well worth it and its paid for itself many times over (Peter in hindsight you could/should have charged more for that course
)
If Psychoff has 10 people signed up for the course some of them will say it was worth it and some will say it wasn't, all depends what individual people get from it.
The money I spent to attend Peter's horse racing workshop back in the day was well worth it and its paid for itself many times over (Peter in hindsight you could/should have charged more for that course
)If Psychoff has 10 people signed up for the course some of them will say it was worth it and some will say it wasn't, all depends what individual people get from it.
VVD is a good example. This is exactly where the pricing decisions should be made imho, it should be a balance between the majority that fail and the minority that succeed, and I think that he's managed to find this balanced figure.Trader Pat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:07 pmIf Psychoff has 10 people signed up for the course some of them will say it was worth it and some will say it wasn't, all depends what individual people get from it.
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CallumPerry
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:12 pm
Can everyone please stop justifying it, I'm wanting to attend Peter's one day and i'm trying to plant the subconscious seed that he should offer it as low in price as possible!! I hope he doesn't see this message else my plan will be ruined...
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ruthlessimon
- Posts: 2144
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm
I know everyone's probably sick of this thread 
but I finally found what I was lookin' for:
But ironically, the 10 might feel hard done by, because they paid £2K for something that (in hindsight) is probably quite simple - just hard to see
but I finally found what I was lookin' for:If Psychoff's course creates profitable traders/excessively profitable traders; £2K was clearly a steal, & he under-priced it.PeterLe wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:29 amIf you were to sell that on Ebay for say as low as £1,000, its highly likely that the buyer would want their money back once they understood how it worked, claiming it too simple ( I expect)
I have a very SIMPLE file that does very well. If I sold it, I expect they would want their money back too despite it making a good profit over time.
But ironically, the 10 might feel hard done by, because they paid £2K for something that (in hindsight) is probably quite simple - just hard to see