Today's Greyhounds

[ShaunWhite]

Lol jimi yeah the anonymising wasn't really necessary (assuming it was my account ) . Aus and UK. It's well ahead of my average to be honest but I suspect more p&ls that get posted are. It's really just an example of how the pennies add up, 41p doesn't seem much but like the profit margin on loo roll, if you do enough business then the cash accumulates.

Imo it's easier to increase your individual returns than it is to find more selections that fit a given strategy, so the aim was always to find something that worked on every sport and animal everywhere first, then work on increasing the margin. This is why I can't really get into these strategies that have named selections, #1 it seems like a lot of work doing the homework and #2 the more you filter the more suseptable you are to backfitting or punter sentiment changes.

I'm not knocking selectung, a profit or any kind takes real effort as we all know and is to be applauded, but so much strategy development chat on here revolves around refining and selecting, eliminate the losers and keep the winners etc (easier said than done) whereas I'm much more interested in finding the universal 'truths' that exist in markets whether you're trading dogs or orange juice. I just thought that a few people might like to see that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Diacritical Quark]

Shaun can I ask what size stakes you were using?

[ShaunWhite]

Similar story to me



I was using £2 stakes though so hoping Shaun's was 10x the size otherwise I'm giving up on the dogs

Nice one. Any profit after commission is great.
Stake? : I try to get as much on as I can but I think my average matched is about 15 quid per selection. So 753 * 15 is 11,295. 340/11,295 is about 3%. Dunno how your RoI works out but even £38 * 30 days is about £1140 which is approx minimum wage. Thousands of people have to stand and flip burgers for 37hrs a week to make that so we all need to keep these numbers in perspective.

.... And how lucky we are that we can keep working in our std self isolation when millions out there are on the brink of bankrupcy, hunger and losing their homes because of the crisis and their income being stopped without warning.

My aim this week is to donate my week's earnings to the local social services support charities. We'd all be paying 40% tax if we earned our wage outside of the gambling loophole so I feel like even that is trivial, and while the crisis lasts I aim to build on that. The last thing we need now in society are parasites, everyone should be contributing, and being non tax payers imo that's a moral obligation at these times rather than a matter of tax law.

[Diacritical Quark]

Nice one. Any profit after commission is great.
Stake? : I try to get as much on as I can but I think my average matched is about 15 quid per selection. So 753 * 15 is 11,295. 340/11,295 is about 3%. Dunno how your RoI works out but even £38 * 30 days is about £1140 which is approx minimum wage. Thousands of people have to stand and flip burgers for 37hrs a week to make that so we all need to keep these numbers in perspective.

.... And how lucky we are that we can keep working in our std self isolation when millions out there are on the brink of bankrupcy, hunger and losing their homes because of the crisis and their income being stopped without warning.

My aim this week is to donate my week's earnings to the local social services support charities. We'd all be paying 40% tax if we earned our wage outside of the gambling loophole so I feel like even that is trivial, and while the crisis lasts I aim to build on that. The last thing we need now in society are parasites, everyone should be contributing, and being non tax payers imo that's a moral obligation at these times rather than a matter of tax law.

I know you're absolutely right about the numbers in perspective however I also believe in maximising potential and if I can get ten times the size on I will, this isn't out of greed but if the option is there I think it should be taken. I'm not convinced however this will last, I've not tried greyhounds before, well other than the last 2 days and have a feeling that what I have achieved in the that time is partly down to increased liquidity and volatility. It'll be interesting if the bot still behaves like it does when there is a full compliment of UK horse racing... I suspect not!

Very nice gesture btw about this week's earnings to local services and support charities, you're right the ability to generate any kind of money from home in these times is certainly a position we are fortunate to be in. I don't profess to making a living from Betfair alone yet, it's a tough nut to crack this one but tax free profits and then giving back to society is definitely something that should be applauded.

[ShaunWhite]

Perspective : I agree, if it's there then why not try and get it because if you don't then someone else will. Trading is a competitive sport in itself. I was just trying to be encouraging about what can seem like modest amounts. I've only been fully funded by betfair earnings myself for about 18 months, I don't yet have much in the way of reserves so I'm praying there's something to trade for the duration of the crisis or who knows what will happen. But while things look reasonable positive I just feel it's my duty as a citizen to try and chip in however I can. I'm not the only trader who makes an effort to give something back voluntarily in some small or large way so I'm not looking for any congratulations for it. That's life though, some people are all me me me and some are unbelievably altruistic, trading isn't different in that regard from what I've seen. But given the tax free, low outgoings nature of this, and in the present circumstances, 1 week, 2% of wages seems like a minimum to me. Joe Average works until mid-May for the country and only then earns for themselves till the end of the year.

[Diacritical Quark]

Perspective : I agree, if it's there then why not try and get it because if you don't then someone else will. Trading is a competitive sport in itself. I was just trying to be encouraging about what can seem like modest amounts. I've only been fully funded by betfair earnings myself for about 18 months, I don't yet have much in the way of reserves so I'm praying there's something to trade for the duration of the crisis or who knows what will happen. But while things look reasonable positive I just feel it's my duty as a citizen to try and chip in however I can. I'm not the only trader who makes an effort to give something back voluntarily in some small or large way so I'm not looking for any congratulations for it. That's life though, some people are all me me me and some are unbelievably altruistic, trading isn't different in that regard from what I've seen. But given the tax free, low outgoings nature of this, and in the present circumstances, 1 week, 2% of wages seems like a minimum to me. Joe Average works until mid-May for the country and only then earns for themselves till the end of the year.

Is trading a zero sum game? I know that in order to win someone has to "lose" but I'm not sure if it works quite in the way say poker works as you can trade out of a profitable position offering value to someone else that may also trade out of a profitiable position later on? I guess from a numbers point of view though 100% people of lose which means 99.5% of people win - commission? Hell I was about £3k in the hole from my Betfair account being opened about 10 years ago before I started matched betting and this bot lark.

[wearthefoxhat]

This is why I can't really get into these strategies that have named selections, #1 it seems like a lot of work doing the homework and #2 the more you filter the more suseptable you are to backfitting or punter sentiment changes.

I'm not knocking selectung, a profit or any kind takes real effort as we all know and is to be applauded, but so much strategy development chat on here revolves around refining and selecting, eliminate the losers and keep the winners etc (easier said than done) whereas I'm much more interested in finding the universal 'truths' that exist in markets whether you're trading dogs or orange juice. I just thought that a few people might like to see that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Nice results posted!

It goes to show there are different approaches out there and turning a fair profit. I'm in the camp for selecting the Lay and then letting software decide if it's within the range for a trade/bet..etc

For this to work, it's using the value approach you/others have mentioned before. The "algo" I use, from finding/inputting, takes about 1 hour to cover 130+ greyhound markets. All of the qualifiers are usually/should be, double digit figures and therefore represent poor value, however, every now and then, one goes off as a favourite! (I'm in like Flynn)

[LinusP]

Some great posts on here, regret not diversifying enough when it comes to different sports. I don't think I am the only one so we should see money moving and hopefully continuing to move into different sports like the dogs.

Its annoying that betfair stopped the monthly volume files so we could monitor where the money goes, I don't have the patience to work through the thousands of markets in the new streaming format.

[Diacritical Quark]

Some great posts on here, regret not diversifying enough when it comes to different sports. I don't think I am the only one so we should see money moving and hopefully continuing to move into different sports like the dogs.

Its annoying that betfair stopped the monthly volume files so we could monitor where the money goes, I don't have the patience to work through the thousands of markets in the new streaming format.

Hadn't even considered anything else other than UK horse racing for my automated bot to run on, will certainly be continuing in the short term to try different approaches with US/AUS racing along with greyhounds.

[ShaunWhite]

Hadn't even considered anything else other than UK horse racing for my automated bot to run on, will certainly be continuing in the short term to try different approaches with US/AUS racing along with greyhounds.

Being totally uninterested in horse or dog racing I don't even take much notice of what species is involved let alone where on the planet it happens to be, a market is a market is a market.

[Bog]

Hadn't even considered anything else other than UK horse racing for my automated bot to run on, will certainly be continuing in the short term to try different approaches with US/AUS racing along with greyhounds.

Being totally uninterested in horse or dog racing I don't even take much notice of what species is involved let alone where on the planet it happens to be, a market is a market is a market.

Interesting approach Shaun. So your trading style does not care if a dog market trades differently than a horse market? A MAGIC method for all markets? Many times I read that you can't trade different markets in the same way but it seems you can! Nice

[xtrader14]

Just finished a manual trading session on Saturdays Greyhounds and it was truly difficult.

Going to look at automation. Can somebody give me a basic auto rule that i can develop myself. Trading greyhounds seems next to impossible. Horse Racing processes don't really transfer over it moves too fast.

Where do i start from an automation point of view. Any ideas how i place a trade on the MACD swap over. Should i use a stop loss.

Any help much appreciated.

[ShaunWhite]

Just finished a manual trading session on Saturdays Greyhounds and it was truly difficult.

Going to look at automation. Can somebody give me a basic auto rule that i can develop myself. Trading greyhounds seems next to impossible. Horse Racing processes don't really transfer over it moves too fast.

Where do i start from an automation point of view. Any ideas how i place a trade on the MACD swap over. Should i use a stop loss.

Any help much appreciated.

Dunno if these are of any interest. Depends how you plan to approach it.

There are a few examples in the shared files section made especially for Greyhound markets
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=11522
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=11698
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=11669

[ShaunWhite]

Interesting approach Shaun. So your trading style does not care if a dog market trades differently than a horse market? A MAGIC method for all markets? Many times I read that you can't trade different markets in the same way but it seems you can! Nice

It's not magic, and it's far from new. There's been stock brokers since about 1698 and all we are is bet brokers, buying and selling bets to those who want to buy and sell their confidence in an outcome. And it goes beyond stocks to the 2nd oldest profession, you figure out that an apple should be worth 30p, so you offer to buy apples at 25p and sell them at 35p. You stay in business if you're good at pricing apples and your bid and offer prices are such that an equal number of buyers and sellers come through the door. I was lucky enough to work in the City for over 20yrs, the oldest firms are the brokers, while the investment houses have come and gone. There's a reason for that.

Both ways to trade are equally valid, but even on here you could easily get the impression that the only way to trade is to be a fortune teller. I followed that approach too at first but I wasn't very good at it.

[xtrader14]

Thanks for the responses. I am thinking of getting involved when the 2 second MACD cross over occurs. That is the basis of my future automation strategy. Any ideas appreciated.