Staking by Liability of a Stored Value

[ScouseBeard]

Is it possible to place a back bet by liability of a stored value?

i.e. I place a £1 Lay Bet on a horse at 15 creating a -£15.00 profit/loss on the selection. I then store that profit/loss figure. If the horse runs infront and the odds drop to around 3, can I place a back bet with stakes calulated to cover the the stored profit/loss amount? So effectively, at 3 it would place a £5 back bet to cover the -£15.00 loss.

I have tried using the Close Trade Rule because I thought that would automatically back by liabilty of the profit/loss to close out, but it never worked, and was placing the back bets at net stake instead.

Can any one help?

[ShaunWhite]

I have tried using the Close Trade Rule.

Try using either Close trade on selection with greening, or Green all selections.
https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/rul ... 3D&mw=Mzcy

[ScouseBeard]

I have tried Close Trade and Close Trade with Greening, but it doesn't seem to work with back bets after a lay bet has been placed on the selection.

The closest I can get is backing by liability for a fixed amount, but that doesnt work because I never know how high or low the profit/loss figure will be from the lay bet

[Jukebox]

I have tried Close Trade and Close Trade with Greening, but it doesn't seem to work with back bets after a lay bet has been placed on the selection.

The closest I can get is backing by liability for a fixed amount, but that doesnt work because I never know how high or low the profit/loss figure will be from the lay bet

If you make your initial lay bet by liability in the first place you will know.

[ScouseBeard]

I have tried that initially, and it works to an extent, but I found that sometimes, say I lay for £10 liability, it's never £10 on the nose. Sometimes it might be -£10.21 or -£8.47 or -£4.63 etc. (I'm betting in-play by the way, so the markets are moving quickly).

That's why I would like to store the current liability on a selection after a lay bet. I could then adjust the percentage of the stored value, and then back to liability of that adjusted stored value.

ie. Lay horse at 10 with £1 (£10 liability). Store profit/loss value plus 20% adjustment (£12 liabilty stored). Horse comes in to 2 odds. Back by liabilty of the -£12 stored value. So it should then place a £6 back bet at 2, and if the horse wins, you should be £2 up.

If it's possible, I should technically be able to move percentages of profits, to and from the back and lay sides until an outcome is reached, or do I have the concept wrong?

[ShaunWhite]

I think you're over complicating it. To close your position with a equal outcome on all selections you'd use a Close with Greening (Green all selections).

But, you are very very unlikely to get a perfectly equalised position. When you detect a price of say 2.0, by the time your bet hits the market the price could be 1.1 or 10. There's an awful lot that can happen during the inplay delay especially if you're placing bets towards the end of the race.

That needn't be a problem though because so long as you're obtaining value prices your long term pl will show a profit even though getting there might have slightly more variance than you'd prefer. The other thing you could try is to submit a second or third Greening transaction but that's might make the disparity across selections worse rather than better sometimes.

[ScouseBeard]

Thanks for the advice bud. I am betting a lot towards the end of races and noticing the the price variations are crazy, especially on a quick refresh rate. Trying to create full automations for the short-distance Australian night races, is proving to be quite mind numbing as well

Greening up near the end is my biggest enemy at the min. I might be in a healthy win position going in to the final few seconds, then a green up happens, doesn't get out, and turns it in to a substantial loss, so I'm trying to stay away from it, and see if I can move profits across multiple selections instead

Hopefully there is a way to stake by liabilty of a stored value, and if there isn't, then it would be a nice touch to see maybe in a future update

[Dallas]

Youd still have the same issue in that you'd need to trigger the bet as the price crashes in them hope it pauses and remains static at the same odds for a second or two so that you get your bet matched at the price it was calculated for.

Getting a bet matched at exactly the price you want in running is difficult at the start but trying to get it to happen in the closing stages of a race in a lottery.

If the horse then still loses you'll end up with a large loss compared to greening up and having a smaller equal loss across all selections.

Id agree with Shaun in that your over complicating it and the green up option will achieve exactly what you want, and just setting it to trigger a few times will even it out eventually.

[ShaunWhite]

ie. Lay horse at 10 with £1 (£10 liability).

fwiw, £9 liability. You took £1 when you layed it and you'll owe £10 if it wins.

it should then place a £6 back bet at 2, and if the horse wins, you should be £2 up.

Your maths is a bit wrong, if you lay £1 @ 10.0 and back £6 at 2.0 then you'll be down £7 if it wins you'll be down £1 if it loses
eg
Lay £1 @ 10, wins = -£9, loses = +£1
Back £2 @ 2, wins = +£2, loses = -£2

If you want to equalise you'd bet £5 at 2.0 and take a £4 loss across the board
eg
Lay £1 @ 10, wins = -£9, loses = +£1
Back £5 @ 2, wins = +£5, loses = -£5

But where did I get the £5 stake? .....If you want to calculate the closing bet stake yourself to equalise rather than letting BA do it, then take the difference between the outcomes of the preceeing trade(s), in your case -£9 -> +£1 = £10 and divide it by the closing price, in your case £10/2.0 = £5. (as above)

But you can't make money laying high and backing low, what you want to try and do is lay low and back high.

So eg..
Lay £10 @ 2.0, wins = -£10, loses = +£10

And if the price rises to 10.0, using the stake calc above, £20 difference between the -£10 and +£10 outcomes on your lay bet, divided that £20 by 10.0 = £2 stake.
so..Back £2 @ 10, wins = +£18, loses = -£2

The end result of those two bets will be (-£10 +£18) = +£8 if it wins, and (+£10 - £2) = £8 if it loses.

That's all the theory anyway, much easier to just use a Close all with Greening transaction type, or a few.

[sandpaper]

Is there ever a solution to the original question?