Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

[Archery1969]

I guess giving a deadline tends to focus peoples minds like it should have done when your teacher said the homework had to be in before Friday and saying if you didnt you would be put before the headmaster to explain why you failed.

Making it law in the UK shows to the EU that we are not mucking about and the deadline is fixed unless Parliament whishes to change the date. Given BoJo has a majority of 80 then thats unlikely to happen unless Covid-19 somehow removes that majority.

Otherwise your not taken seriously and the dates just drift like a false favourite on BF.

Total agreement Archery, well put and Derek ... because they know it's 31/12 it won't be 31/01! The EU want to keep dragging this out because the longer everything takes there is always the possibility, no matter how remote, that something may happen to reverse our decision. They can't lose by dragging it out. And as Archery said, that it's in law makes it a lot more difficult for them to say "let's do that after Christmas and New Year shall we".

So it's not about getting the best deal for Britain but just getting out before anyone can stop you. Any possible delay should be judged on its merits rather than how long you've already waited or the impatient of BJ and the Brexiteers.

I dont think it was ever about getting the best deal, you never would with 1 against 27, it was about leaving within a known timeframe, without extending the goal posts. If at the same time you get a good deal then all the beter. We wont, most people know that and to be frank probably dont care as there over 50, probably retired or financially secure. With a majoiry of 80 BoJo was given a very clear mandate under our voting system because those that voted for him knew he would take us out of the EU.

[greenmark]

Go squabble on the Brexit thread.
Sure enough Brexit will play into the Coronavirus issue. But dealing with CV is the priority.

I'm getting really unhappy about the UK response.
I expected us to out perform other European nations.
So far, Germany have trounced us.
We're trundling along with Italy and Spain.
Great Britain?

[Archery1969]

Go squabble on the Brexit thread.
Sure enough Brexit will play into the Coronavirus issue. But dealing with CV is the priority.

I'm getting really unhappy about the UK response.
I expected us to out perform other European nations.
So far, Germany have trounced us.
We're trundling along with Italy and Spain.
Great Britain?

You cant compare UK with Germany for the following reasons:

- Roughly same population but geographically very different. Germany is 1.5 times bigger in area space. People are more spread out.
- Germany spends 50% more per head on healthcare than the UK does.
- Germany has access to Roche group in country which is a world leader on pharmaceutical and testing experise / facilities.
- Germany acted allot quicker based on advice from the Roche group.
- Many decisions and investment is decentralised to 16 different internal states.
- From 2000 to 2015 Germany's growth was 102% while UK's was 58%. They invested heavily in healtcare and infrastructure.
- The UK chief scientific officer in my opinion is not up to scratch.
- The UK health secretary in my opinion is not up to scratch.
- Although Germany soldiers are not allowed to serve overseas armed they currently have 183,000 active personnel and 23,000 reserves. We have 82,000 active and 18,000 reserves. Based on roughly the same population that is an eye opener and another area they can look to for helping out if needed.
- Mobile testing units were ready to go from week 1, ours have only been talked about today!!!

In a nutshell they do things differently and are better at it.

Also, France doesnt come out of this looking very good either.

[greenmark]

Go squabble on the Brexit thread.
Sure enough Brexit will play into the Coronavirus issue. But dealing with CV is the priority.

I'm getting really unhappy about the UK response.
I expected us to out perform other European nations.
So far, Germany have trounced us.
We're trundling along with Italy and Spain.
Great Britain?

You cant compare UK with Germany for the following reasons:

- Roughly same population but geographically very different. Germany is 1.5 times bigger in area space. People are more spread out.
- Germany spends 50% more per head on healthcare than the UK does.
- Germany has access to Roche group in country which is a world leader on pharmaceutical and testing experise / facilities.
- Germany acted allot quicker based on advice from the Roche group.
- Many decisions and investment is decentralised to 16 different internal states.
- From 2000 to 2015 Germany's growth was 102% while UK's was 58%. They invested heavily in healtcare and infrastructure.
- The UK chief scientific officer in my opinion is not up to scratch.
- The UK health secretary in my opinion is not up to scratch.

In a nutshell they do things differently and are better at it.

Also, France doesnt come out of this looking very good either.

Indeed. Although I think Matt Hancock has done ok.
Raab is so feeble its unbelievable.
Never thought I would view Johnson as a compelling orator.
But lets face it. We are where we are.
Is it a good thing for Labour to start haranguing the govt for political gain?
Have the govt failed?

[Archery1969]

Go squabble on the Brexit thread.
Sure enough Brexit will play into the Coronavirus issue. But dealing with CV is the priority.

I'm getting really unhappy about the UK response.
I expected us to out perform other European nations.
So far, Germany have trounced us.
We're trundling along with Italy and Spain.
Great Britain?

You cant compare UK with Germany for the following reasons:

- Roughly same population but geographically very different. Germany is 1.5 times bigger in area space. People are more spread out.
- Germany spends 50% more per head on healthcare than the UK does.
- Germany has access to Roche group in country which is a world leader on pharmaceutical and testing experise / facilities.
- Germany acted allot quicker based on advice from the Roche group.
- Many decisions and investment is decentralised to 16 different internal states.
- From 2000 to 2015 Germany's growth was 102% while UK's was 58%. They invested heavily in healtcare and infrastructure.
- The UK chief scientific officer in my opinion is not up to scratch.
- The UK health secretary in my opinion is not up to scratch.

In a nutshell they do things differently and are better at it.

Also, France doesnt come out of this looking very good either.

Indeed. Although I think Matt Hancock has done ok.
Raab is so feeble its unbelievable.
Never thought I would view Johnson as a compelling orator.
But lets face it. We are where we are.
Is it a good thing for Labour to start haranguing the govt for political gain?
Have the govt failed?

Also...

Although Germany soldiers are not allowed to serve overseas armed they currently have 183,000 active personnel and 23,000 reserves. We have 82,000 active and 18,000 reserves. Based on roughly the same population that is an eye opener and another area they can look to for helping out if needed.
- Mobile testing units were ready to go from week 1, ours have only been talked about today!!!

Has the government failed, YES, in a number of areas but the main one being healthcare investment and infrastructure. And yes i am a Tory voter, which at the moment i am ashamed to say. They knew people in care homes were going to get screwed and they have. Germany knew that from day 1 and addressed the issue asap.

[superfrank]

The NHS is seen as untouchable and beyond criticism and it's a big part of the problem - I'm surprised the old bill aren't arresting non-clappers.

The proof is in the pudding. Germany has a decentralised system that has excellent health outcomes. It's well funded yes, but Germany runs a huge trade surplus and we, er, don't. They afford it and I suspect their system is run way more efficiently than ours.

[Archery1969]

The NHS is seen as untouchable and beyond criticism and it's a big part of the problem - I'm surprised the old bill aren't arresting non-clappers.

The proof is in the pudding. Germany has a decentralised system that has excellent health outcomes. It's well funded yes, but Germany runs a huge trade surplus and we, er, don't. They afford it and I suspect their system is run way more efficiently than ours.

+ 1

Our government listend too but didnt act on advice from South Korea, Singapore and Germany. All 3 have had pretty amazing outcomes so far and make us look like Sierra Leone in comparison (no offence).

I imagine in the not too distant future that families of ones who have died in the UK will collectively launch a criminal lawsuit against the current government for gross negligence. Skip the public enquiry and just go straight to court.

Personally, i hate to admit it but the government has so far totally failed on a mamouth scale. As for Mr hancock saying we have the best health care professional and scientists in this field is rather scary. I would argue that South Korea, Singapore and Germany do and we do not!!!!

[Emmson]

South Korea has done an outstanding job, no question & Hong Kong, places where incidentally face masks were almost universally worn. I am surprised at Switzerland's bad numbers & horrified at what's going on in Belgium.

[gazuty]

South Korea has done an outstanding job, no question & Hong Kong, places where incidentally face masks were almost universally worn. I am surprised at Switzerland's bad numbers & horrified at what's going on in Belgium.

I'd like to see where Sweden comes out over the long term, whether others will go through cycles that it will not encounter.

[firlandsfarm]

Go squabble on the Brexit thread.
Sure enough Brexit will play into the Coronavirus issue. But dealing with CV is the priority.

Greed, apologies, I responded to a comment without thinking of the subject of this thread.

[greenmark]

Go squabble on the Brexit thread.
Sure enough Brexit will play into the Coronavirus issue. But dealing with CV is the priority.

Greed, apologies, I responded to a comment without thinking of the subject of this thread.

No apologies necessary. I allowed my disgruntlement with the Brexit result to resurface .
I try to take the view (not always successfully) that it's done now and just hope it turns out as well as Brexiteers believe.

[Naffman]

South Korea has done an outstanding job, no question & Hong Kong, places where incidentally face masks were almost universally worn. I am surprised at Switzerland's bad numbers & horrified at what's going on in Belgium.

I'd like to see where Sweden comes out over the long term, whether others will go through cycles that it will not encounter.

Definitely feels like people are looking at Sweden and thinking social distancing rather than a complete lockdown is the way to go

[Dallas]

South Korea has done an outstanding job, no question & Hong Kong, places where incidentally face masks were almost universally worn. I am surprised at Switzerland's bad numbers & horrified at what's going on in Belgium.

I'd like to see where Sweden comes out over the long term, whether others will go through cycles that it will not encounter.

Definitely feels like people are looking at Sweden and thinking social distancing rather than a complete lockdown is the way to go

There was an interesting and positive report on Newsnight a few nights ago that showed the peak happened on the 8th (4th in london), more importanly rewind back 3 weeks (the assumed time from infection to death in a bad case) from that date and it lines up with the week the govt 'advised' people to stay away from public places not the actual lockdown week.

Its the first report and last around 6mins
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... t-20042020

Data evidence that its the social distancing thats doing the most good rather than a full lockdown.

All round encouraging signs that with extensive local testing and social distance and mass gathering banned we could get out of this quicker than MSM reports suggest.

[TraderFred]

Apparently in Sweden over 50 % of the population live alone. There is far less inter generational living. A lot of the deaths are in care homes, and from the Somali community.

South Korea have also lived under the constant threat of attack from North Korea. I imagine they were well drilled and had all the PPE ready for any sort of an attack.

Not sure how much truth there is in those two statements, or how much relevance they have to the Covid 19 death figures, though each country has their own unique set of circumstances to deal with.

Really don’t think it is helpful comparing other countries to each other during this crisis. For a start there is a lot of discrepancy around how the figures are actually recorded.

Comparing death rates from country to country is a bit like comparing matched volume on the different exchanges. It all depends how you count the figures.

[firlandsfarm]

Go squabble on the Brexit thread.
Sure enough Brexit will play into the Coronavirus issue. But dealing with CV is the priority.

Greed, apologies, I responded to a comment without thinking of the subject of this thread.

No apologies necessary. I allowed my disgruntlement with the Brexit result to resurface .
I try to take the view (not always successfully) that it's done now and just hope it turns out as well as Brexiteers believe.

Well no harm done unless you thought I really meant "Greed"! Should have been "Agreed"!

I voted for it and like you I hope it turns out for the good ... the future was never guaranteed whichever way we had voted.