Why are there so many in-play bettors

[Naffman]

All the time on twitter (thankfully not so much on here) there are so many in-play bettors (that call themselves traders), why does it seem like there are so many betting in running compared to pre race or is it true?

Is pre race too hard for people that they go looking elsewhere or is it the lure of bigger profits on small banks that's more enticing?

[jamesg46]

All the time on twitter (thankfully not so much on here) there are so many in-play bettors (that call themselves traders), why does it seem like there are so many betting in running compared to pre race or is it true?

Is pre race too hard for people that they go looking elsewhere or is it the lure of bigger profits on small banks that's more enticing?

I think volumes tell us the true story of where people are mainly at, I believe it's a Twatter thing, somebody sells an ebook on how to trade in running & makes it look like the holy grail on YouTube & masses of Twatters lap it up, then go on to post how they're the next best thing, it amazes me that they never show the huge losses, they just disappear into the night, never to be seen again, & as quickly as they're gone another 3 pop up... similar to drug lords, they take the quick cash, highlight themselves as much as possible, get busted & the replacement is waiting in the shadows.

[Naffman]

I agree.

And I've noticed a lot of people congratulate each other over something that looks really risky, I guess it just goes to show how many people out there really dont have a clue what they're doing in the markets, but I honestly thought people what have at least a little understanding to know making 100% on your bank everyday just isnt possible.

[jamesg46]

https://twitter.com/betangel/status/125 ... 48067?s=19

Look at how many likes this tweet got in comparison to Peter's other posts, people dont want to think about losing until they've lost.

[Naffman]

https://twitter.com/betangel/status/125 ... 48067?s=19

Look at how many likes this tweet got in comparison to Peter's other posts, people dont want to think about losing until they've lost.

That's interesting. Talking about psychology and limiting losses isn't sexy, showing a 100% SR is though

[jamesg46]

https://twitter.com/betangel/status/125 ... 48067?s=19

Look at how many likes this tweet got in comparison to Peter's other posts, people dont want to think about losing until they've lost.

That's interesting. Talking about psychology and limiting losses isn't sexy, showing a 100% SR is though

That's probably the reason there is so many people like that on Twatter, if you're going to sell an ebook you're gonna want to sell something with a high strike rate because it appeals to more people. Strange really because I've always been skeptical of high strike rate system sellers... I'm not saying there aren't high strike rate systems that work, scalping is a pretty good example of that but like Peter has been saying, the best places to make money are the places that not many people are looking, or something similar to that.

[Dallas]

Another lure of high strike rate stratergys for ebook pushers is they can offer 30/60 day money back gurantees, the vasy majority will still be picking up small profits during this time and bragging about it increasing more sales - than wham!
The big losses from the long term variation start coming - those that complain get blocked or drowned out by the latest batch still enjoying the small early profits

Rinse and repeat

[Kai]

Why are there so many in-play bettors

Probably because you can't create a three figure trading result with baby stakes in a prerace market, where you're more likely to produce baby results with three figure stakes.

But I think the answer is in the very description of the inplay market.

It's a thin, fast and volatile market with practically no bet placement delay. Naff said

Is it a near perfect storm of trading opportunity or a pure gamblers market? Can't really answer that one with a us-vs-them mentality with which the quoted question is loaded, I think keeping an open mind goes a long way so that's why I try to do it.

Btw glanced at the fella that James posted, looks like your average run-of-the-mill order flow trader, very much the opposite of a random bettor.

But no use getting his e-book if it ever comes out, you can't describe order flow trading with e-books, especially to people out there that don't even use trading software, you would need videos and lots of them. It's just a cash grab, same reason why most people start uploading results on Twitter to promote themselves.

[ShaunWhite]

Scalping is easy, in-play is easy, next month it'll be something else that's easy. It's all about selling the next easy thing to people who've found out the previous easy thing wasn't as easy as it looked.

[Naffman]

I guess that's why Peter gets a lot of abuse, because pre race is hard and 90% will fail, in-play works until that one race wipes you out then they'll blame themselves on leaving the bet in to long and not getting out.

And Kai is right, pre race you'd be lucky to earn 10% with £100 whereas betting in-play you could easily get 200%+ in a day

[Kai]

Scalping is easy, in-play is easy, next month it'll be something else that's easy. It's all about selling the next easy thing to people who've found out the previous easy thing wasn't as easy as it looked.

Not very hard to impress the ignorant masses tbh, most people on here could easily promote themselves on social media either by handpicking results or going full transparent to sell stuff, if they didn't mind selling a part of their soul and privacy in the process.

Some probably already do it anonymously.

[TraderFred]

I also think that being an “in running” trader is easier to sell than pre race.

It is more exciting, faster moving, and it is much easier to get a clean sweep of greens using high % strategies like lay to back, or just going for a couple of ticks on the front runner etc. Also, as pointed out, far easier to get a 3 figure green from a smallish stake to have as your profile picture on Twitter !

Does make you wonder who is losing in running. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some of Betfairs biggest winners come from in running. Some using fast pics, some using automation , maybe some using both.

Can’t just be the lay part of the BTLs and the DOBs that are losing. You imagine that some of the people who claim to be in running traders who use their “race reading” skills and risk/reward ratios to bet using delayed pictures aren’t doing as well as they like to make out.

Not saying it can’t be done, though it’s definitely not as easy as often made out. Pre race is proper trading in my opinion. It’s not as sexy as in running, and probably not as lucrative, hence having lesser appeal. Though a lot of the in running strategies you see touted around online is basically just gambling. They call it in running trading to make it sound more professional, though it’s basically just in running gambling.

[megarain]

My take is this :

Pre race/event u have 2000 eyes analyzing, and any rick is max 5% out.

In running can be v fast .. u need a different skill set/good info flow/and discipline.

If u establish those, profits will accrue from traders with less of each.

[wearthefoxhat]

My take is this :

Pre race/event u have 2000 eyes analyzing, and any rick is max 5% out.

In running can be v fast .. u need a different skill set/good info flow/and discipline.

If u establish those, profits will accrue from traders with less of each.

+1

In play turnover can reach 20%+ of the pre-trade market turnover.

Also a good/reliable piece of software, ie: Bet Angel (what else) that has something like the In-Play Trader option. Always an option to get creative with the dutching software combined.

Not everyones' cup of tea, but risk/reward is good and can give an edge in certain race types/selections....

InPlayD.jpg

[Kai]

Pre race is proper trading in my opinion.

Preoff definitely is proper trading, but it's not necessarily sports trading, at least not to the full extent of those words.

I love speculating on preoff markets as much as the next trader, but I feel that the inplay markets are the real heart and soul of a betting exchange, or at least they should be, racing markets in particular. There is just so much speed, uncertainty and greed at times in this market which from my perspective, is the perfect storm of opportunity.

You only need to see how many of the biggest traders specialize in the various inplay markets in general, some may be in this thread, if these people were all gamblers then surely their luck would run out eventually? And yet it didn't, they have specialized those markets primarily because they believe that those hide the biggest of opportunities.

Comparing matched volume is usually a good measure of the quality of opportunities, but I don't think people are calculating and comparing it properly in this case, a black and white volume comparison is not enough imho. Like others have said, they require different skill sets and it's difficult to even compare at times.

Our influential host on this forum has obviously popularized prerace trading over time and this has become a predominantly racing forum where such opinions are the norm, but bear in mind that he comes from a financial trading background so a speculative market suits him like a glove, so logically, teaching all these gamblers some proper (speculative) trading skills was always going to be a struggle over the years.

The stigma surrounding inplay is understandable as well, because the very first rule that traders are always taught is to NEVER GO INPLAY. That is why trading purists are very likely to dismiss all inplay traders as outright gamblers and won't even bother having an objective look at the markets. I was/am a purist as well and that's exactly what I did, completely ignored it for the first few years.

Having an opinion is perfectly fine, I'm expressing one right now, but you have to make sure that it's actually your own opinion that you're expressing and not a borrowed one. How else would you know what's best for you personally?

Everyone's trading journey is different, my own has taken me through some very different markets, but for the most part I was actively looking for markets and trading approaches that suited my purist mentality and my lifestyle, it may be the most fun approach but it's far from the most efficient one, if efficiency is the thing that you're after. I've recently switched it up and concluded that I need to focus on inplay racing and cricket next, before circling back to football, ideally long term main focus on the big football/cricket markets while racing fills the gaps in between. I've charted my own journey based on current opinion (which may still change but that's unlikely) and I'm hoping to start reaping the full benefits of this approach only when I start getting into my 40s, depending on lifestyle, but these 3 markets are the markets where I see the best opportunities available to sports traders, but not necessarily to speculators.