Betfair Down / Betfair site crash

[Dobbin]

I've asked Betfair if they could refund me for the loss I had incurred earlier in the day, due to the outage (even though I knew I was whistling in the wind!).

I was referred to section 12 of the T&C's - 'Matters beyond our reasonable control'. I've just sent a follow-up email (which I've CCed to Niall Wass):

Betfair was taken offline prior to today’s first UK horse race. It was later brought back online, and I assumed that the technical problems that had caused it to be unavailable earlier must have been resolved. However, this was not the case, as Betfair later went down again. The second outage cost me money, as I was unable to close a trade I had opened.

As Betfair could have kept the site offline until all the technical issues had been resolved, surely the second outage was not beyond Betfair’s ‘reasonable control’. I therefore ask that you please review this decision.

I have CCed this email to Niall Wass as it relates to a matter about which there is a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst Betfair users, judging by comments in the Bet Angel forum.

Jeff

I wish you every success.

However Betfairs attitude seems to be that we are all "Mug" Punters

Try explaining why you pay 20% and Data charges and commission to somebody who does not trade.

Most just laugh.

Then tell the about the state of the Exchange and how unreliable it is and they just roll up into a ball convulsing with laughter.

Then explain that when you put a bet on to trade out and you cannot get back online it is your own fault for trusting the site in the first place.

Now we are at the point of getting Blank expressions staring back at you.

Dobbin

[petardo]

This is like with mobile phones long time ago in my country.With the first you pay for dialing number as well.The second you only pay incoming and outcomming calls.After only outcomminig... Until there is big competition we have to accept whatever they do.

[petardo]

BF down aggain.Lucky the didn`t let it down before the Barcelona started. I got 10K liability round the markets. End of the day I got some profit.

[rogerpalmtree]

I've given Betdaq more money in commision in the last week than in the last year combined. I think I may even reach their first discount rate on monday. BF still down

[superfrank]

IMHO, the way you undermine Betfair's position is by doing what Bill Gates did with Internet Explorer. You give the product away for free - zero commission and zero PC - and make your money from ad revenue.

Otherwise, the risk is that you end up like Betdaq and the other companies who have tried to take on Betfair, ie nowhere.

Once you have a loyal following and loads of liquidity, you can think about introducing a modest commission!

Jeff

That's a good point. I really don't know much at all about Betdaq, but if they are serious about getting custom and liquidity from Betfair then they should have a commission free month or something like that. After today's fiasco they should start the campaign next week with ads all over the place. I'd like to give it a go.

[JollyGreen]

That's another thing that needs to be addressed,
If BF is not working properly then they should turn if off, knowone should be able to place bets at all if others can not.

Betfair don't really give a shit about ANY customers, traders or gamblers. They have a monopoly and they are exploiting it to the full. They know that there is no viable alternative and until such time as we can hit them where it hurts i.e. in their pocket, then they will continue to tread all over anybody and everybody.

When the site goes down they win money and the only downside for them is they win less money when compared to a fully functional site. That will never change and that is why they can stick two fingers up to all of us. As soon as I heard there was an issue, I went out with my family for a meal and a stroll. It just wasn't worth the stress and aggravation as experience shows they always have ongoing problems and ultimately you are likely to lose money or your sanity.

You can read all the waffle that Betfair spout and they will claim to be genuinely sorry. That is all lip service and when all is said and done the bean counters add up how much they made and they shrug their shoulders before moving on. I cannot think of any other business that can stop functioning and stop offering their supposed USP and make money whilst at the same time treating their clients with utter disdain.

Sadly we are powerless to act unless everyone agrees to cease using Betfair for a set period or all move to Betdaq. That won't happen because there will always be the greedy people who will stay and look to mop up, something that Betfair know all too well!

[Dobbin]

[quote
Sadly we are powerless to act unless everyone agrees to cease using Betfair for a set period or all move to Betdaq. That won't happen because there will always be the greedy people who will stay and look to mop up, something that Betfair know all too well![/quote]


Hi Jollygreen,

I have been saying this for a months now and agree entirely

Everyone complains about no liquidity on Betdaq which would be a viable alternative.

Those who complain about it are the ones who have the means to change the position as it stands but seem quite content to take the crap that they get from Betfair. Just in case they end up paying less Premium Charge because they made less.

You could make 10% less on Betdaq and still be in front as they do not charge you a 20% Income Tax.

They offer 2.5% commission at the moment for the month of February.

Maybe if we all moved there for February Betfair might take notice.

Until then people just have to suck it up if they are unwilling to make the change possible.

Personally I would rather take the month off than continue with Betfair.

Dobbin

p.s.

And before anyone says that is easy for you to say. I am full time and have made my living this way for the last 7 years.

Like Peter I was one of the first to join Betfair

[Iron]

Hi Dobbin

IMHO, it's a classic Catch 22.

Traders won't migrate over to Betdaq until other traders migrate over to Betdaq...

If I were Betdaq's marketing director, I'd be moving heaven and earth to make that happen, but their current head of marketing apparently has other ideas...

Jeff

Everyone complains about no liquidity on Betdaq which would be a viable alternative.

Those who complain about it are the ones who have the means to change the position as it stands but seem quite content to take the crap that they get from Betfair.

[Totty2457]

I would happily trial Betdaq today but unfortunately I rely on in-running trading to pay my way and that is a definite no-no, the liquidity of in-running on BD is laughable let alone the pre-race trading!

[PeterLe]

Ironically I received the email below in connection I made to the help desk :-

You recently contacted our Helpdesk team with an enquiry; following on from this, we’d really like to get some feedback from you about how your enquiry was handled.

Betfair welcome all customer feedback, acknowledging it as an integral element to improve our customer service experience.

This simple survey will take no more than 2 minutes to complete. Your opinions will enable us to implement new initiatives to enhance the service we provide to our customers.

Please click here to take the survey

If you are having difficulty accessing the survey or have any questions relating to the content, please do contact us at [email protected]

Thank you for your input, it's very much appreciated.

Julie Cooper
Global Operations Director

Why not all send an email to [email protected]
OK, I know it's intended for a specific survey, but they may get the message if they suddenly get a couple of hundred emails. (Better still, copy the CEO..!)

What tends to happen is that the senior management get shielded by bad news, as lower level managers dont like to pass bad news up the chain..this is happening in my company right now and no doubt many others..

regards
Peter

[PeterLe]

Ironically I received the email below in connection with an email I had made to the help desk :-

You recently contacted our Helpdesk team with an enquiry; following on from this, we’d really like to get some feedback from you about how your enquiry was handled.

Betfair welcome all customer feedback, acknowledging it as an integral element to improve our customer service experience.

This simple survey will take no more than 2 minutes to complete. Your opinions will enable us to implement new initiatives to enhance the service we provide to our customers.

Please click here to take the survey

If you are having difficulty accessing the survey or have any questions relating to the content, please do contact us at [email protected]

Thank you for your input, it's very much appreciated.

Julie Cooper
Global Operations Director

Why not all send an email to [email protected]
OK, I know it's intended for a specific survey, but they may get the message if they suddenly get a couple of hundred emails. (Better still, copy the CEO..!)

What tends to happen is that the senior management get shielded by bad news, as lower level managers dont like to pass bad news up the chain..this is happening in my company right now and no doubt many others..

regards
Peter

[Totty2457]

All they've got to do is glance to the titles of the threads on the Betfair Forum to see that something is drastically wrong with their Customer Service/Website! A point which I made to some poor sucker who answered the phone to me at 14:20 yesterday afternoon!

[Iron]

Why not all send an email to [email protected]
OK, I know it's intended for a specific survey, but they may get the message if they suddenly get a couple of hundred emails. (Better still, copy the CEO..!)

Absolutely.

And I'd CC it to [email protected] (Mr Wass is Chief Marketing and Development Officer). The CEO is a guy called David Yu.

What tends to happen is that the senior management get shielded by bad news, as lower level managers dont like to pass bad news up the chain..

Quite.

Most of the supervisors and managers I've worked with over the years are only interested in looking good in the eyes of their boss.

The place could be falling apart, but as long as their boss thinks they are on top of their game, they don't give a damn!

Jeff

[Totty2457]

Quite.

Most of the supervisors and managers I've worked with over the years are only interested in looking good in the eyes of their boss.

The place could be falling apart, but as long as their boss thinks they are on top of their game, they don't give a damn!

Haha, I used to have a saying at my old work called 'Smoke & Mirrors' !!

[to75ne]

Sadly we are powerless to act unless everyone agrees to cease using Betfair for a set period or all move to Betdaq. That won't happen because there will always be the greedy people who will stay and look to mop up, something that Betfair know all too well!

[quote
Those who complain about it are the ones who have the means to change the position as it stands but seem quite content to take the crap that they get from Betfair. Just in case they end up paying less Premium Charge because they made less.

You could make 10% less on Betdaq and still be in front as they do not charge you a 20% Income Tax.

They offer 2.5% commission at the moment for the month of February.

Maybe if we all moved there for February Betfair might take notice.

Until then people just have to suck it up if they are unwilling to make the change possible.

Personally I would rather take the month off than continue with Betfair.

Dobbin

i agree with the above all makes perfect sense but i dont believe it will ever happen sadly.

All very fine what you say but how do you propose to persuade people to move over to betdaq?

How do you get the momentum going?

Not all traders use ba, so I assume you would need to get all the various vendors behind a move to betdaq. Reckon that would be mission impossible, there as been quite a bit friction between some of them over the years, it may have died down lately but I suspect its still there.

Assuming you get the momentum and enough people flip to betdaq, how do you know betdaq can handle the increase in traffic, and not have similar or worse problems then betfair.

As of yet I have not seen on this forum or other forum, any thought out strategy on how to mount a campaign to boycott betfair for a single day let alone a longer time period.

Personally I don’t think the majority of users really care that much about it. As andy fuller and hgooden pointed last time it crashed, you need to take the backers and layers with you to have any real impact, and they have no reason to move.