Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

[Crazyskier]

Nobody commemorates Hitler but it's acceptable to commemorate a slave trader with a statue in the middle of one of the UK's largest multicutural cities. People in Bristol have been campaigning for years to have the statue rmoved. It's quite fitting it was dumped in the harbour considering over 20,000 died on his slave ships and were simply dumped at sea. Times change we don't need to live in the past and are quite capable of making our own history.

If they've been campaigning for years why didn't they dump it in the river years ago? What could possibly have happened recently that has any relevance to a 17th century MP and slave trader?

I despised Margaret Thatcher but didn't see the point of celebrating the death of an elderly woman with dementia who probably wasn't even aware of the damage she's done. It's one thing downing and smashing up Saddam Husain's statue but to do it for someone who's died over three centuries ago would suggest it's the anarchists that are really living in the past.

It's irrelevant he died over 3 centuries ago, it was pulled down because of what it represented. If you can't see how black people might be offended at a statue of a slave trader in the middle of the city I think it's more likely you and Frank are living in the past rather than these 'anarchists' as you seem to tag them.

The point is that mob rule and destruction of property must never be tolerated, regardless of what offence people claim to have felt. The basis of any civilised society is the rule of Law.

CS

[firlandsfarm]

No one is saying that all traces of troublesome history should be erased, that would be quite absurd. Just that we shouldn't glorify those who were responsible. That's a valid view I think, and it's conclusion isn't that you destroy the white house or level the great city of bristol.

But who decides what should be taken down and what should survive? A few thousand yobs is not a majority in the UK, it's not a majority of Bristol and it's probably not even a majority in the towns, cities and villages where the yobs live! So minorities rule by force and violence, yes? What these thugs don't realise or ignore is it's it was the UK that campaigned for the cessation of slavery so instead of removing Colston why not erect next to him a statue of Wilberforce. That would be a correct representation of history.

They are self interested hypocrites! They want to protest and remove references to slavery so long as it does not remove assets they benefit from … it's a trait of the goodie goodie LL's, "remove that which we as a minority tell you is bad but not if it's something we benefit from or contradicts our other beliefs".

[Archery1969]

Now there going to take down a statue of Robert Lee ?

This is all getting rather pathetic. All that will happen is the white militia groups will start murdering more.

[sa7med]

No one is saying that all traces of troublesome history should be erased, that would be quite absurd. Just that we shouldn't glorify those who were responsible. That's a valid view I think, and it's conclusion isn't that you destroy the white house or level the great city of bristol.

But who decides what should be taken down and what should survive? A few thousand yobs is not a majority in the UK, it's not a majority of Bristol and it's probably not even a majority in the towns, cities and villages where the yobs live! So minorities rule by force and violence, yes? What these thugs don't realise or ignore is it's it was the UK that campaigned for the cessation of slavery so instead of removing Colston why not erect next to him a statue of Wilberforce. That would be a correct representation of history.

They are self interested hypocrites! They want to protest and remove references to slavery so long as it does not remove assets they benefit from … it's a trait of the goodie goodie LL's, "remove that which we as a minority tell you is bad but not if it's something we benefit from or contradicts our other beliefs".

When you erect a statue in plain view like that it's not to represent history, it's to honor someone. Representations of history belong in museums. Like I said, I don't agree with them taking actions into their own hands without going through the proper channels, but I would also argue that the view that a former slave trader shouldn't be memorialized is completely valid and that people finding it offensive is also valid. It's not hypocritical and doesn't mean that they should also find the city of Bristol offensive. In one case you are memorializing a slave trader who operated on an industrial scale, and the latter case is a city in which slavery occurred and which currently does not. Just because something is a part of history doesn't mean we should memorialize it, and not wanting to memorialize it doesn't mean that you believe that you want to destroy anything to do with it.

For me the issue is committing that act without the consensus of the city, but the view that it is offensive is completely valid I would say.

What are goodie goodie LL's?

[Crazyskier]

No one is saying that all traces of troublesome history should be erased, that would be quite absurd. Just that we shouldn't glorify those who were responsible. That's a valid view I think, and it's conclusion isn't that you destroy the white house or level the great city of bristol.

What are goodie goodie LL's?

The liberal lunatics that are currently eroding all that was good about once-Great Britain.

CS

[Emmson]

The pulling down of a slaver statue has become a great diversion away from the pandemic crisis which UK government has handled so abysmally.

[Archery1969]

o dear, here we go, must be a full moon or something...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52977088

[Derek27]

o dear, here we go, must be a full moon or something...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52977088

What's the point in commissioning demolition workers to take down statues? The mob will do it for free.

[Dallas]

Little Britain has now been removed from Netflix and BBC iPlayer because 'Times have Changed'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52983319

[Archery1969]

Little Britain has now been removed from Netflix and BBC iPlayer because 'Times have Changed'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52983319

Does this mean "Rising Damp" and "Step Toe and Son" will be removed too ?

[Derek27]

I was thinking of going through all the Little Britain episodes, very funny series. I wonder if anyone actually complained that they were offended by the series.

[LeTiss]

When you give in to mob rule, you give a green light to all sorts of anarchy

What about the statue of Henry VIII in London?
I'm sure Catholics love seeing his face

What about Mosques? -
Islam has always had a connection to slavery

You can't just remove everything associated with slave owners - it's our history!
You want to remove all traces of our history?
What's next? Burning books?.......Communists and Fascists love burning books

Everywhere you look in the UK, there are wonderful buildings that was built with proceeds from our imperialist past
The Houses of Parliament being an example.......shall we remove it

[gazuty]

When you give in to mob rule, you give a green light to all sorts of anarchy

Yep.

I like to think of this thought experiment .... its 1745 in the colony of Virginia and you come over to discuss trading. I ask Sally to fetch you a glass of lemonade. What happens next? You drink it.

The man who wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" owned slaves and fathered a child (or children) with his wife's half sister (who was also a slave). Is Thomas Jefferson one of the great men of history? Absolutely. He found himself in a time and he moved things forward as a great thinker of the enlightenment.

We can't go back in time and judge people against today's latest woke theory (or I guess one can - but those who do are saying they wouldn't drink the lemonade on my porch, and I say bullshit).

[LeTiss]

Excellent post. You're dead right

[sa7med]

When you give in to mob rule, you give a green light to all sorts of anarchy

What about the statue of Henry VIII in London?
I'm sure Catholics love seeing his face

What about Mosques? -
Islam has always had a connection to slavery

You can't just remove everything associated with slave owners - it's our history!
You want to remove all traces of our history?
What's next? Burning books?.......Communists and Fascists love burning books

Everywhere you look in the UK, there are wonderful buildings that was built with proceeds from our imperialist past
The Houses of Parliament being an example.......shall we remove it

Statues in public squares are memorials. I don't think anyone is suggesting removing anything and everything to do with slavery, rather what they are suggesting is no longer memorializing/honoring a many who traded slaves on an industrial scale. You say 'it's our history', yet we don't memorialize everything to do with history. You just memorialize for purposes of honor or memory among other reasons (you memorialize because you want to highlight this aspect of history). Museums are the place for history for history's sake, and that is a place where you can take a neutral view of history and no one should be offended.

I think one should be careful when drawing up analogies. I would say there's a difference between being a perpetrator of a massive and horrific slave trade and owning slaves as Jefferson did. While today owning slaves is considered wrong, back then it was the norm. Furthermore, owning slaves doesn't necessarily really define Jefferson whereas being the a slave trade was a large part of who Robert Mulligan was.

I agree that the mob/protesters should not have taken it into their own hands. Rather it should be done by consensus. Though I would also take the view that not everything to do with British history should necessarily be memorialized. That is not to say they should be forgotten though.