Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

[Derek27]

Fundamentally, the West is still largely white, Christian and based upon a partriarchal system. To deny this is to deny reality. People generally like and feel most comfortable with people who look, think and feel like them. Also a fact.

The tiny minority of angry young black people protesting, ( along with their bleeding heart liberals who just love a bandwagon), seem to have forgotten the fact that we invited their parents and grandparents to our shores after WW2, as guests; to integrate, work hard and enjoy the many freedoms we offer, in comparison to the less-civilsed lands from which they came.

To be lectured to, in the way we're seeing, about being privileged to be white in a largely white country that our Grand parents fought for and built, is frankly offensive beyond words. We did not invite the parents and grand parents of these angry minority groups for their offspring to lecture us on what statues they wish to see in their host country. I don't expect to be bullied or called names if I happen to have a viewpoint that differs from the vocal minority, no matter how righteous they believe their cause is!

I'm absolutely appalled by the actions of the soft-touch Police and nutty liberals that think we should betray our heritage and pander to the minorities letting them break the law of the land we welcomed their parents / grand parents to. And as for the champagne socialists jumping on the bandwagon and attempting to bully and shame into silence, anyone with differing viewpoints to theirs, well let's just say that I pity the students of today, where heated debate and the ability to think critically and change one's mind if logic suggests it, are all but gone from any Russell Group University and it's all safe spaces, leftism and PC extremism.

We remain, I hope, a free and democratic country, where the rule of Law is paramount, and free speech, expression and also freedom of thought, is a central tenet of our democracy. By it's very definition, democracy means everyone gets a vote, but the majority rule; and everyone, regardless of colour, gender or sexuality, has the right to be heard and be hold whatever views, even though some may find them offensive. Je suis Charlie!

CS

I've only just got round to reading this. I didn't know you could be christian and racist at the same time. Who exactly are you talking to on this forum? You use the terms "they" and "us", who is "us"?

When somebody is awarded British citizenship they effectively have the same rights as any white person here and your failure to understand that is the very problem. People of all colours have built this country yet you still feel black people are guests here?

[Kai]

Are you laughing at the presidental speech from CS or this whole thread?

Do you thnk this 'whole thread' is risible, if so, why keep posting to it?

If you're asking me it's just a thread like any other to me, was useful for Covid stuff but that's all but over now. Was going to suggest it gets deleted not long ago but only semi jokingly

You can see why judging by the last few posts, but it's an outlet I guess if people want one.

[Trader Pat]

I think it could be very useful if we ever have a forum meet up... we'll all know what table to sit at and who to avoid

[Crazyskier]

Sorry, I spent the last hour on the floor, paralised with laughter.

(I hope I'm right about the non-existence of god).

Try the Bible for inspiration? Or research some theology perhaps? FAITH is required, but the Supreme Being welcomes all who repent. That's surely the only logical conclusion from all I've seen / read / heard, Derek.

The bible was written by somebody who thought the world was flat and the centre of the universe. He was blissfully unaware that dinosaurs existed before us, other planets formed at the same time as the earth, the speed of light, length of time it takes for stars to form, etc.

The Bible is among other things, a collection of testaments from many of Jesus' apostles / disciples and followers, as even a cursory inspection would show you. I've no idea who you think 'wrote' it, but my earlier comment about some theological research of your own and some critical thinking would be a good place to start if you really are interested in forming an educated conclusion about matters of faith.

CS

[Kai]

To be fair to CS, if anyone's going to recommend reading The Bible he should definitely do it in this thread and not in the 'Anyone read any good books' thread.

[Derek27]

Sorry, I spent the last hour on the floor, paralised with laughter.

Try the Bible for inspiration? Or research some theology perhaps? FAITH is required, but the Supreme Being welcomes all who repent. That's surely the only logical conclusion from all I've seen / read / heard, Derek.

The bible was written by somebody who thought the world was flat and the centre of the universe. He was blissfully unaware that dinosaurs existed before us, other planets formed at the same time as the earth, the speed of light, length of time it takes for stars to form, etc.

The Bible is among other things ( ), a collection of testaments from many of Jesus' apostles / disciples and followers, as even a cursory inspection would show you. I've no idea who you think 'wrote' it, but my earlier comment about some theological research of your own and some critical thinking would be a good place to start if you really are interested in forming an educated conclusion about matters of faith.

CS

'He' was a reference to the author, that is, all the people who collectively wrote the fairytale. I've already carried out your advice as I'm Catholic and went to Catholic schools, which obviously involved hundreds of hours of religious fantasy lessons. I would suggest you take a look at the video I linked even if it's just to see what your up against or how pointless it is trying to convince the scientifically-minded that God exists.

[jamesg46]

I think it could be very useful if we ever have a forum meet up... we'll all know what table to sit at and who to avoid

If that was to happen, I want to be the guy behind the bar that nobody pays attention to, that way I get to overview the noise & still make a few quid from the spilled ego's.

[Trader Pat]

I think it could be very useful if we ever have a forum meet up... we'll all know what table to sit at and who to avoid

If that was to happen, I want to be the guy behind the bar that nobody pays attention to, that way I get to overview the noise & still make a few quid from the spilled ego's.

[Crazyskier]

Sorry, I spent the last hour on the floor, paralised with laughter.

The bible was written by somebody who thought the world was flat and the centre of the universe. He was blissfully unaware that dinosaurs existed before us, other planets formed at the same time as the earth, the speed of light, length of time it takes for stars to form, etc.

The Bible is among other things ( ), a collection of testaments from many of Jesus' apostles / disciples and followers, as even a cursory inspection would show you. I've no idea who you think 'wrote' it, but my earlier comment about some theological research of your own and some critical thinking would be a good place to start if you really are interested in forming an educated conclusion about matters of faith.

CS

'He' was a reference to the author, that is, all the people who collectively wrote the fairytale. I've already carried out your advice as I'm Catholic and went to Catholic schools, which obviously involved hundreds of hours of religious fantasy lessons. I would suggest you take a look at the video I linked even if it's just to see what your up against or how pointless it is trying to convince the scientifically-minded that God exists.

The last comment I'll make on the matter, is this: That Jesus was born 2020 years ago is in no doubt - even the most ardent atheists accept this. The overwhelming amount of Roman historical documents (from around the time of Herod) and countless other evidence from that time, mean that his birth, life, and indeed death of Christ at the hands of the Romans are widely accepted. What's disputed by some, are his miraculous deeds, the immaculate conception, being the Son of God, etc etc and each of us must make up his or her own mind on what we accept as allegory or symbolism, versus actual, literal events....

As I'm sure a lapsed Catholic such as yourself knows well, the laws that govern our land and much of the West, are based upon the 10 Commandments, Seven Deadly Sins and other biblical teachings. Institutions such as Holy Matrimony (marriage). Holidays based upon the birth of Christ (Christmas) 2020 years ago, and Easter (His resurrection) as well as many other festivals and celebrations. Indeed, the most popular calendar in use in the entire world is the Western Gregorian or Christian calendar from Pope Gregory XIII. Please understand I'm not a theologian by any means, just someone who has done a little research as I urge anyone to do before blindly quoting the words of others and dismissing God so casually as a 'fairytale'. The breathtaking beauty of nature, the birth of a child, the concept of love, these things can not simply be by accident? I refuse to believe it. .. But equally I respect the rights of others to choose to have faith or not as they see fit. All I ask of anyone is to look at the evidence and engage critical thinking.

Religion is a matter of personal faith and choice; one of our many freedoms here in (once-Great) Britain; but one thing's for sure, Derek: people of all faiths and those with none, each of us will eventually shrug off our mortal coils; and any modicum of doubt will be removed for eternity...

CS

[Derek27]

The tiny minority of angry young black people protesting, ( along with their bleeding heart liberals who just love a bandwagon), seem to have forgotten the fact that we invited their parents and grandparents to our shores after WW2, as guests; to integrate, work hard and enjoy the many freedoms we offer, in comparison to the less-civilsed lands from which they came.

To be lectured to, in the way we're seeing, about being privileged to be white in a largely white country that our Grand parents fought for and built, is frankly offensive beyond words. We did not invite the parents and grand parents of these angry minority groups for their offspring to lecture us on what statues they wish to see in their host country.

So instead of all that clapping for the NHS, the thousands of black NHS doctors and nurses busy saving lives in life-threateningly dangerous conditions, should have been clapping their "hosts" for building a country with Ill-equipt hospitals lacking PPE. Yet they have the audacity to think that only 75 years later they are no longer "guests" but part of the host country.

[Crazyskier]

The tiny minority of angry young black people protesting, ( along with their bleeding heart liberals who just love a bandwagon), seem to have forgotten the fact that we invited their parents and grandparents to our shores after WW2, as guests; to integrate, work hard and enjoy the many freedoms we offer, in comparison to the less-civilsed lands from which they came.

To be lectured to, in the way we're seeing, about being privileged to be white in a largely white country that our Grand parents fought for and built, is frankly offensive beyond words. We did not invite the parents and grand parents of these angry minority groups for their offspring to lecture us on what statues they wish to see in their host country.

So instead of all that clapping for the NHS, the thousands of black NHS doctors and nurses busy saving lives in life-threateningly dangerous conditions, should have been clapping their "hosts" for building a country with Ill-equipt hospitals lacking PPE. Yet they have the audacity to think that only 75 years later they are no longer "guests" but part of the host country.

Good point, except that the fabulous NHS workers that were so very badly needed in the 60s and 70s (I remember!) and to whom I remain enormously grateful, weren't the ones spitting, kicking and punching the Police in London yesterday. Throwing bikes at women Police on horseback. Taking selfies while kicking a Policeman on the ground as occurred in Hackney, in our Capital City. These angry thugs are the 'they' to whom I refer.

I try to judge people on their actions, Derek rather than their skin colour. This is why your accusation of 'racism' is so utterly misplaced, and indeed part of the wider problem of being seemingly unable to criticise the behaviour of minority ethnics when they display such appalling behaviour as in recent days, without narrow minded fools rushing to call out 'racism'.

I'll say no more on the matter. I just hope it all quietens down soon and the Police can go back to proactively preventing, and robustly investigating, ALL crime, regardless of the colour of the perpetrators.

CS

[Derek27]

The Bible is among other things ( ), a collection of testaments from many of Jesus' apostles / disciples and followers, as even a cursory inspection would show you. I've no idea who you think 'wrote' it, but my earlier comment about some theological research of your own and some critical thinking would be a good place to start if you really are interested in forming an educated conclusion about matters of faith.

CS

'He' was a reference to the author, that is, all the people who collectively wrote the fairytale. I've already carried out your advice as I'm Catholic and went to Catholic schools, which obviously involved hundreds of hours of religious fantasy lessons. I would suggest you take a look at the video I linked even if it's just to see what your up against or how pointless it is trying to convince the scientifically-minded that God exists.

The last comment I'll make on the matter, is this: That Jesus was born 2020 years ago is in no doubt - even the most ardent atheists accept this.

I'm afraid you're wrong about that. Most historians consider the birth of Jesus to be 4 B.C., due to a mathematical blunder by the guy who invented the calendar. I was actually thinking of the old testament when I referred to it as a fairytale, sorry, but I never doubted the existence of Jesus.

The overwhelming amount of Roman historical documents (from around the time of Herod) and countless other evidence from that time, mean that his birth, life, and indeed death of Christ at the hands of the Romans are widely accepted. What's disputed by some, are his miraculous deeds, the immaculate conception, being the Son of God, etc etc and each of us must make up his or her own mind on what we accept as allegory or symbolism, versus actual, literal events....

As I'm sure a lapsed Catholic such as yourself knows well, the laws that govern our land and much of the West, are based upon the 10 Commandments, Seven Deadly Sins and other biblical teachings. Institutions such as Holy Matrimony (marriage).

Wrong! They are not laws that govern our land - you cannot get arrested for committing adultery, it's a personal matter. They are just rules for people in your club, many of whom will ignore them.

Holidays based upon the birth of Christ (Christmas) 2020 years ago, and Easter (His resurrection) as well as many other festivals and celebrations. Indeed, the most popular calendar in use in the entire world is the Western Gregorian or Christian calendar from Pope Gregory XIII. Please understand I'm not a theologian by any means, just someone who has done a little research as I urge anyone to do before blindly quoting the words of others and dismissing God so casually as a 'fairytale'. The breathtaking beauty of nature, the birth of a child, the concept of love, these things can not simply be by accident?

That's what people thought about earthquakes! You've advised me to research theology, have you bothered reading the scientific explanation about how we came about?

I refuse to believe it. .. But equally I respect the rights of others to choose to have faith or not as they see fit. All I ask of anyone is to look at the evidence and engage critical thinking.

Religion is a matter of personal faith and choice; one of our many freedoms here in (once-Great) Britain; but one thing's for sure, Derek: people of all faiths and those with none, each of us will eventually shrug off our mortal coils; and any modicum of doubt will be removed for eternity...

CS

What I was really getting at is why have faith in God when you could have faith in the devil? I even find it annoying that my spell-checker makes me capitalise God but not the devil.

I've never made money trading by randomly opening trades and having faith that it will go the right way, so for the same reason I'd rather go the way of solid evidence, which is in abundance 2000 years on, than blind faith.

[Kai]

Run Derek : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn0VJMOKmyc

[Trader Pat]

As I'm sure a lapsed Catholic such as yourself knows well, the laws that govern our land and much of the West, are based upon the 10 Commandments, Seven Deadly Sins and other biblical teachings. Institutions such as Holy Matrimony (marriage). Holidays based upon the birth of Christ (Christmas) 2020 years ago, and Easter (His resurrection) as well as many other festivals and celebrations. Indeed, the most popular calendar in use in the entire world is the Western Gregorian or Christian calendar from Pope Gregory XIII. Please understand I'm not a theologian by any means, just someone who has done a little research as I urge anyone to do before blindly quoting the words of others and dismissing God so casually as a 'fairytale'. The breathtaking beauty of nature, the birth of a child, the concept of love, these things can not simply be by accident? I refuse to believe it. .. But equally I respect the rights of others to choose to have faith or not as they see fit. All I ask of anyone is to look at the evidence and engage critical thinking.

Religion is a matter of personal faith and choice; one of our many freedoms here in (once-Great) Britain; but one thing's for sure, Derek: people of all faiths and those with none, each of us will eventually shrug off our mortal coils; and any modicum of doubt will be removed for eternity...

CS

CS I'm what you would call a 'lapsed catholic' even though I hate the term because it implies I've lost or am missing out on something. I was raised catholic but never believed any of it even as a child. However my mother was a very devout believer and took great comfort from her faith so I try really hard not to intentionally piss all over another persons beliefs but I have to pull you up on a couple of things.

Holidays (Christmas and Easter) are not based on the birth and resurrection of Christ but are actually hijacked from pagan holidays. Christmas coincides with the ancient Roman festival of Saturnalia which was held in honour of the god Saturn and was held in the week 3rd week of December. The bible offers no mention of the birth date of Christ instead it offers clues such as the shephards were keeping watch over their flocks at night. December is an unlikely time of year for sheep to be in the fields as sheep would normally be brought into shelter by the end of October at the latest in that part of the world. December 25th was also date of the winter solstice according to the Roman calendar, and it was Pope Julius 1st who set Jesus's birthday as the 25th of December and I'm not going to believe what an ancient pope has to say about anything, I've seen the Borgias. Easter is believed to be originally based on the spring solstice again a nice tie in with pagan holidays.

I admire and respect your obvious devotion to your faith but as you are asking other to engage in critical thinking its just as important that we all shield ourselves from 'blind' faith. My own personal ideology is to believe in people rather than gods, I think if everybody had that way of thinking then the world would be a better place than it is today.

EDIT: That last paragraph sounds really preachy doesnt it! Sorry I didn't mean it to

[Derek27]

The tiny minority of angry young black people protesting, ( along with their bleeding heart liberals who just love a bandwagon), seem to have forgotten the fact that we invited their parents and grandparents to our shores after WW2, as guests; to integrate, work hard and enjoy the many freedoms we offer, in comparison to the less-civilsed lands from which they came.

To be lectured to, in the way we're seeing, about being privileged to be white in a largely white country that our Grand parents fought for and built, is frankly offensive beyond words. We did not invite the parents and grand parents of these angry minority groups for their offspring to lecture us on what statues they wish to see in their host country.

So instead of all that clapping for the NHS, the thousands of black NHS doctors and nurses busy saving lives in life-threateningly dangerous conditions, should have been clapping their "hosts" for building a country with Ill-equipt hospitals lacking PPE. Yet they have the audacity to think that only 75 years later they are no longer "guests" but part of the host country.

Good point, except that the fabulous NHS workers that were so very badly needed in the 60s and 70s (I remember!) and to whom I remain enormously grateful, weren't the ones spitting, kicking and punching the Police in London yesterday. Throwing bikes at women Police on horseback. Taking selfies while kicking a Policeman on the ground as occurred in Hackney, in our Capital City. These angry thugs are the 'they' to whom I refer.

I try to judge people on their actions, Derek rather than their skin colour. This is why your accusation of 'racism' is so utterly misplaced, and indeed part of the wider problem of being seemingly unable to criticise the behaviour of minority ethnics when they display such appalling behaviour as in recent days, without narrow minded fools rushing to call out 'racism'.

I'll say no more on the matter. I just hope it all quietens down soon and the Police can go back to proactively preventing, and robustly investigating, ALL crime, regardless of the colour of the perpetrators.

CS

That means I've got the final word.

"We did not invite the parents and grand parents of these angry minority groups for their offspring to lecture us on what statues they wish to see in their host country."

I'll withdraw my accusation of racism as, having read that statement again, it seems the word "their" refers to the parents and grandparents rather than the angry minority.

I will just say this though. When my Indian parents came over here from Uganda (I think before Ide Armin came into power), I'd expect them to be grateful to Alec Douglas-Home's government, not you, your grandparents or the British people, who might, for all I know, have refused permission if they had a choice on that particular matter. But nearly 60 years on, it's completely irrelevant in my view. Do you know what year or century your ancestors came over to these shores?

It's quite possible black people haven't "forgotten" that their grandparents were invited over here, they may not think it's relevant.