Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

[Derek27]

If I hand a gun and somebody threatened me with a taser I think I'd fire it without question. You'd be quite vulnerable and defenceless once tasered!!

Don't understand the claim that he was harmless.

[gazuty]

Worth reading.

https://quillette.com/2020/06/11/racist ... onsidered/

[greenmark]

Worth reading.

https://quillette.com/2020/06/11/racist ... onsidered/

Thanks for that. A good article. My confirmation bias went berserk, but I think there are some important points there. Poor US police training, black poverty, and thus, criminality.
But most of all our perception of reality through the prism of media coverage.
White deaths at the hands of the police get no coverage. But according to the article are in line with demographics and wealth distribution.
Seems to me the issue isn't racism (although I accept racism is an ongoing problem), its a police force that is incompetent and fearful every time its steps onto the streets.

[Archery1969]

Worth reading.

https://quillette.com/2020/06/11/racist ... onsidered/

Thanks for that. A good article. My confirmation bias went berserk, but I think there are some important points there. Poor US police training, black poverty, and thus, criminality.
But most of all our perception of reality through the prism of media coverage.
White deaths at the hands of the police get no coverage. But according to the article are in line with demographics and wealth distribution.
Seems to me the issue isn't racism (although I accept racism is an ongoing problem), its a police force that is incompetent and fearful every time its steps onto the streets.

They probably have the right to be fearful when they get called out. There are around 300 million firearms in circulation with no gun registry. That's why there has always been the old joke since i can remember being "shoot first and ask questions later".

The guy i saw being shot in the carpark took one of the officers taser and then fired it at him, did he have something to hide ?

Not saying its right to shoot him dead in the back but what are these officers supposed todo and what happens if they all turn around and say they not doing it anymore if we cant protect ourseleves!!

[Derek27]

Seems it's not only the statues that need boarding up when the Football Lads Alliance are in town.

He's been sentenced to 14 days in prison.

[greenmark]

Worth reading.

https://quillette.com/2020/06/11/racist ... onsidered/

Thanks for that. A good article. My confirmation bias went berserk, but I think there are some important points there. Poor US police training, black poverty, and thus, criminality.
But most of all our perception of reality through the prism of media coverage.
White deaths at the hands of the police get no coverage. But according to the article are in line with demographics and wealth distribution.
Seems to me the issue isn't racism (although I accept racism is an ongoing problem), its a police force that is incompetent and fearful every time its steps onto the streets.

They probably have the right to be fearful when they get called out. There are around 300 million firearms in circulation with no gun registry. That's why there has always been the old joke since i can remember being "shoot first and ask questions later".

The guy i saw being shot in the carpark took one of the officers taser and then fired it at him, did he have something to hide ?

Not saying its right to shoot him dead in the back but what are these officers supposed todo and what happens if they all turn around and say they not doing it anymore if we cant protect ourseleves!!

One interpretation of that article might be, the police perception of these people is that they are probably dangerous felons, so shoot them just to be safe, even if they are running away. But I must (sadly itls my hobby horse) return to the proliferation of weapons in the US.
One thing has recently struck me. If the right to bear arms was so useful, how come there's nobody with a gun other than the murderous nutcase at these shootings? But the availability of guns MUST be a factor in the prevalance of pointless suicidal violence. Surely! Or am I as daft as I think?

[Archery1969]

Thanks for that. A good article. My confirmation bias went berserk, but I think there are some important points there. Poor US police training, black poverty, and thus, criminality.
But most of all our perception of reality through the prism of media coverage.
White deaths at the hands of the police get no coverage. But according to the article are in line with demographics and wealth distribution.
Seems to me the issue isn't racism (although I accept racism is an ongoing problem), its a police force that is incompetent and fearful every time its steps onto the streets.

They probably have the right to be fearful when they get called out. There are around 300 million firearms in circulation with no gun registry. That's why there has always been the old joke since i can remember being "shoot first and ask questions later".

The guy i saw being shot in the carpark took one of the officers taser and then fired it at him, did he have something to hide ?

Not saying its right to shoot him dead in the back but what are these officers supposed todo and what happens if they all turn around and say they not doing it anymore if we cant protect ourseleves!!

One interpretation of that article might be, the police perception of these people is that they are probably dangerous felons, so shoot them just to be safe, even if they are running away. But I must (sadly itls my hobby horse) return to the proliferation of weapons in the US.
One thing has recently struck me. If the right to bear arms was so useful, how come there's nobody with a gun other than the murderous nutcase at these shootings? But the availability of guns MUST be a factor in the prevalance of pointless suicidal violence. Surely! Or am I as daft as I think?

While there is a large number of guns in circulation, carrying one in public requires a special permit for concealed carry. Some states allow open carry, Texas i think but probably not a good idea in the current circumstances. Most don't bother getting a permit as it requires additional costs and further background checks. Most have guns for hunting, target shooting or home protection. The latter being a big problem in some areas where home invasions are frequent as the Police are over 60 minutes drive away. If you don't have a gun in those situations then you are going to get robbed and/or raped and/or murdered.

To answer your question i suspect there are other's at these shootings that are armed, legally or not, but choose to ignore the issue and walk on by rather than get into an armed conflict. Helping a stranger in the street is different to protecting your home and family etc.

Biggest issue in the USA is not the number of guns but that there is no registry. So the government and police don't know who has what or how many. How would you go about banning or restricting ownership given those circumstances. Unless your going to get a Judge to sign off on searching every home in the USA or asking people to hand them in freely then you will never fix the problem. Guns are handed down from grandfather to father to son or daughter. Its a right that allot of Americans believe in and are not about to give it up without a fight. Obama thought it was going to be easy to bring in controls but he soon failed. He even tried to get federal government and the ammo dealers to stop selling to the public. Obviously that failed too. Every time he mentioned gun controls sales of guns and ammo went through the roof.

Unfortunately its far to late to-do anything about guns in the USA now.

[greenmark]

They probably have the right to be fearful when they get called out. There are around 300 million firearms in circulation with no gun registry. That's why there has always been the old joke since i can remember being "shoot first and ask questions later".

The guy i saw being shot in the carpark took one of the officers taser and then fired it at him, did he have something to hide ?

Not saying its right to shoot him dead in the back but what are these officers supposed todo and what happens if they all turn around and say they not doing it anymore if we cant protect ourseleves!!

One interpretation of that article might be, the police perception of these people is that they are probably dangerous felons, so shoot them just to be safe, even if they are running away. But I must (sadly itls my hobby horse) return to the proliferation of weapons in the US.
One thing has recently struck me. If the right to bear arms was so useful, how come there's nobody with a gun other than the murderous nutcase at these shootings? But the availability of guns MUST be a factor in the prevalance of pointless suicidal violence. Surely! Or am I as daft as I think?

While there is a large number of guns in circulation, carrying one in public requires a special permit for concealed carry. Some states allow open carry, Texas i think but probably not a good idea in the current circumstances. Most don't bother getting a permit as it requires additional costs and further background checks. Most have guns for hunting, target shooting or home protection. The latter being a big problem in some areas where home invasions are frequent as the Police are over 60 minutes drive away. If you don't have a gun in those situations then you are going to get robbed and/or raped and/or murdered.

To answer your question i suspect there are other's at these shootings that are armed, legally or not, but choose to ignore the issue and walk on by rather than get into an armed conflict. Helping a stranger in the street is different to protecting your home and family etc.

Biggest issue in the USA is not the number of guns but that there is no registry. So the government and police don't know who has what or how many. How would you go about banning or restricting ownership given those circumstances. Unless your going to get a Judge to sign off on searching every home in the USA or asking people to hand them in freely then you will never fix the problem. Guns are handed down from grandfather to father to son or daughter. Its a right that allot of Americans believe in and are not about to give it up without a fight. Obama thought it was going to be easy to bring in controls but he soon failed. He even tried to get federal government and the ammo dealers to stop selling to the public. Obviously that failed too. Every time he mentioned gun controls sales of guns and ammo went through the roof.

Unfortunately its far to late to-do anything about guns in the USA now.

That last remark depresses me beyond belief. Other than poverty, guns cheese me off more than any other issue. Mainly because its a 'legimate' business. Sure, if you're in drugs or prostitution, this is a legitimate purchase, but otherwise flogging weapons that require the twitch of a finger to kill is utter cobblers. Sure enough, farmers, landowners, soldiers, specialist police need these things.
NOBODY else needs a gun.

[Archery1969]

One interpretation of that article might be, the police perception of these people is that they are probably dangerous felons, so shoot them just to be safe, even if they are running away. But I must (sadly itls my hobby horse) return to the proliferation of weapons in the US.
One thing has recently struck me. If the right to bear arms was so useful, how come there's nobody with a gun other than the murderous nutcase at these shootings? But the availability of guns MUST be a factor in the prevalance of pointless suicidal violence. Surely! Or am I as daft as I think?

While there is a large number of guns in circulation, carrying one in public requires a special permit for concealed carry. Some states allow open carry, Texas i think but probably not a good idea in the current circumstances. Most don't bother getting a permit as it requires additional costs and further background checks. Most have guns for hunting, target shooting or home protection. The latter being a big problem in some areas where home invasions are frequent as the Police are over 60 minutes drive away. If you don't have a gun in those situations then you are going to get robbed and/or raped and/or murdered.

To answer your question i suspect there are other's at these shootings that are armed, legally or not, but choose to ignore the issue and walk on by rather than get into an armed conflict. Helping a stranger in the street is different to protecting your home and family etc.

Biggest issue in the USA is not the number of guns but that there is no registry. So the government and police don't know who has what or how many. How would you go about banning or restricting ownership given those circumstances. Unless your going to get a Judge to sign off on searching every home in the USA or asking people to hand them in freely then you will never fix the problem. Guns are handed down from grandfather to father to son or daughter. Its a right that allot of Americans believe in and are not about to give it up without a fight. Obama thought it was going to be easy to bring in controls but he soon failed. He even tried to get federal government and the ammo dealers to stop selling to the public. Obviously that failed too. Every time he mentioned gun controls sales of guns and ammo went through the roof.

Unfortunately its far to late to-do anything about guns in the USA now.

That last remark depresses me beyond belief. Other than poverty, guns cheese me off more than any other issue. Mainly because its a 'legimate' business. Sure, if you're in drugs or prostitution, this is a legitimate purchase, but otherwise flogging weapons that require the twitch of a finger to kill is utter cobblers. Sure enough, farmers, landowners, soldiers, specialist police need these things.
NOBODY else needs a gun.

What do you do if you live in the midwest, nearest neighbour is 2 miles away and the Police are 60 mins drive away and your about to get a home invasion ? You cant compare the USA to the UK whereby the Police will usually get to you within 6 mins or so. New York has some strict state laws on gun carry and ownership as do some other northern states but most guns are held in southern states whereby people and properties are more spread out. Allot of farmers have big problems with coyotes and some with wolves, they need to be able to protect their livestock without ringing the local Police every day.

Guns are a way of life for many like using a hammer or saw at work or DIY. Sounds strange i know but its a fact.

Don't forget there are 1.3 million people in the UK with legally held firearms too. Difference is we have a gun registry so the Police know who has what and how many. Therefore it would be much easy to come around ones house and remove them if needed. If one happens to be missing then your in for allot of trouble if you cant explain where it is.

[Trader Pat]

For me its pretty clear the issue isn't police racism but poor training. On top of that American cops only have to feel in danger to justify pulling their gun and shooting somebody.

Normal police here in Ireland and the UK and most of Europe to be fair are unarmed and find themselves in situations every day where they are 'in danger' and don't have a gun to take out so I take my hat off to them.

Also looking at the video of the death of Rayshard Brooks just shows how poorly trained cops are in unarmed combat. 2 cops couldn't subdue 1 guy. You would think a police force would train their officers in some basic Krav Maga or Kenpo. When I was younger I was a part time bouncer and I would have been sacked on the spot if I didn't know enough basic holds and strikes to take a troublesome punter out of the club without it turning into a tug of war.

[Archery1969]

For me its pretty clear the issue isn't police racism but poor training. On top of that American cops only have to feel in danger to justify pulling their gun and shooting somebody.

Normal police here in Ireland and the UK and most of Europe to be fair are unarmed and find themselves in situations every day where they are 'in danger' and don't have a gun to take out so I take my hat off to them.

Also looking at the video of the death of Rayshard Brooks just shows how poorly trained cops are in unarmed combat. 2 cops couldn't subdue 1 guy. You would think a police force would train their officers in some basic Krav Maga or Kenpo. When I was younger I was a part time bouncer and I would have been sacked on the spot if I didn't know enough basic holds and strikes to take a troublesome punter out of the club without it turning into a tug of war.

The Police in France, Italy, Spain and Germany to name a few carry side arms.

[Trader Pat]

The Police in France, Italy, Spain and Germany to name a few carry side arms.

I didn't know that!

Most cops in Ireland and the UK then are unarmed

[Archery1969]

The Police in France, Italy, Spain and Germany to name a few carry side arms.

I didn't know that!

Most cops in Ireland and the UK then are unarmed

Most cops in the EU apart from UK and Eire are armed. Cops in NI are armed too.

[Trader Pat]

In my best John Cleese voice: OK so apart from France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Northern Ireland etc.... what have the Romans ever done for us?!

https://youtu.be/Y7tvauOJMHo

[Archery1969]

In my best John Cleese voice: OK so apart from France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Northern Ireland etc.... what have the Romans ever done for us?!

https://youtu.be/Y7tvauOJMHo