So much discussion about automation on the forum

[jimibt]

well... this is especially upsetting to read at the beginning of the journey

don't want to sound like groundhog day, but re-read the previous posts that talk about automation being used by manual traders in the form of servants etc... this gives you the best of both!

you're not, but my pessimistic nature says that this kind of information is harder to come by or grasps by yourself whilst learning to read the market and manually trading has more resources available as it can be talked about on a generic level.
Fixed info like what markers/signals to use is a better kept secret to discover.

one final thought on this. I don't know how long you've been plodding away on this. I registered on this forum back in 2015 but had been playing around in various forms on betfair for 3-4 years prior to that. since 2015 i'd say that my real learning started (not because of BA, but because of higher levels of exposure to the markets and some good info on here).

it's a learning curve on many fronts, technically, fundamentally and emotionally. not all will be mastered without long periods of immersion into the nuances of each. after what amounts to 7-8 years doing this stuff, I'd still say I only know 40-50% of what I really should (if that!).

[tiberigc]

one final thought on this. I don't know how long you've been plodding away on this. I registered on this forum back in 2015 but had been playing around in various forms on betfair for 3-4 years prior to that. since 2015 i'd say that my real learning started (not because of BA, but because of higher levels of exposure to the markets and some good info on here).

it's a learning curve on many fronts, technically, fundamentally and emotionally. not all will be mastered without long periods of immersion into the nuances of each. after what amounts to 7-8 years doing this stuff, I'd still say I only know 40-50% of what I really should (if that!).

I have so little time into trading that I would be even ashamed to mention it.
But as anyone, I'm looking for motivation on the forum and reading through things people post. My weapon of choice was manual trading and learning to read the pre-off markets. The further I kept reading the forums the more apparent it began that I might need to turn to learning automation.

[spreadbetting]

one final thought on this. I don't know how long you've been plodding away on this. I registered on this forum back in 2015 but had been playing around in various forms on betfair for 3-4 years prior to that. since 2015 i'd say that my real learning started (not because of BA, but because of higher levels of exposure to the markets and some good info on here).

it's a learning curve on many fronts, technically, fundamentally and emotionally. not all will be mastered without long periods of immersion into the nuances of each. after what amounts to 7-8 years doing this stuff, I'd still say I only know 40-50% of what I really should (if that!).

I have so little time into trading that I would be even ashamed to mention it.
But as anyone, I'm looking for motivation on the forum and reading through things people post. My weapon of choice was manual trading and learning to read the pre-off markets. The further I kept reading the forums the more apparent it began that I might need to turn to learning automation.
But I hear you, I will focus on a combination between signaling and manual trading.

Don't get too hung up on the fact people are automated especially if you've only just started out. You'll never be able to make money from automation until you understand how the markets work and the best way to understand them is to watch/play them manually, imo.

[Trader Pat]

manual traders dont stand a chance short/long term.

well... this is especially upsetting to read at the beginning of the journey

It shouldn't be upsetting mainly because its a bullshit statement. Automation is the probably the holy grail but there are plenty of manual traders who make a decent living on Betfair so don't let statements like that put you off.

One thing I'd be wary of If i was you is that you say in a later post you look for motivation on the forum.. I hope you meant inspiration? If you aren't motivated then trading isn't for you. It can be lonely, boring and pretty depressing in the summer when the sun is shining and all your friends are in the beer garden! If you're not motivated then chances are you'll lose money.

[Derek27]

Professionals use Automation - Amateurs trade manually. Decide which one you want to be. I should listen to my own advice.

In case you didn't realise, people have been making a living from betting long before the exchange even existed!

[Derek27]

... manual traders dont stand a chance short/long term. So, if you cannot beat them, join them.

Speak for yourself! Maybe you don't stand a chance as a manual trader - perhaps I wouldn't stand a chance as an auto-trader. We're all individual xtrader, with our own strengths, weaknesses, skills and experience.

[tiberigc]

One thing I'd be wary of If i was you is that you say in a later post you look for motivation on the forum.. I hope you meant inspiration? If you aren't motivated then trading isn't for you. It can be lonely, boring and pretty depressing in the summer when the sun is shining and all your friends are in the beer garden! If you're not motivated then chances are you'll lose money.

yes, motivation was a poor choice of word there.
I mainly meant that I'm looking for evidence that I am learning and focusing on the right things and not spend years studying the markets just to come to the conclusion that bots and excessive automation will hinder manual trading

[Euler]

I trade manually and automatically, why not if you can make money on both?

Some manual strategies I've now automated so they can run without me and add to my weekly total. All I need to do each day is to load the markets and allocate the automation.

Automation now supplements my manual trading either via alerts, servants or displaying additional information.

So I guess I no longer do 'basic' manual trading although it's perfectly possible to do that. It's just you will do better adding a few layers on top IMHO.

[Euler]

... manual traders dont stand a chance short/long term. So, if you cannot beat them, join them.

Speak for yourself! Maybe you don't stand a chance as a manual trader - perhaps I wouldn't stand a chance as an auto-trader. We're all individual xtrader, with our own strengths, weaknesses, skills and experience.

Your role as a trader is to look for opportunities, not problems or reasons why something won't work. You really won't do very well if you don't approach the market with a positive or innovative attitude.

All I've had my whole life is telling me why I couldn't do anything. If I would have listened to them I would never have achieved a sodding thing.

[ShaunWhite]

You can make money doing both. But like any manufacturing process, an artisan sat making money by hand might not be able to outperform a mechanised production line making money, but will probably do a better job on any one item.

There's a lot of bot chat lately because BA have recently added a load more features, it isn't always that way. And generally there's only so much you can say about 'watch the ladder enough to get good at guessing' rather than the specifics of something much more complex, even just data analysis and statistics could take up a whole forum let alone adding Guardian, maybe Excel, Python/C#, the api etc.

All the talk about automation shouldn't be discouraging for manual traders, if anything it's discouraging for people wanting to automate! When people learn that downloading a Dallas bot and running it for a day isn't going make them rich you can literally feel the enthusiasm ebb away.

If you learn to trade manually it's a skill you'll wake up with every day, If you automate you can wake up to find you've killed all the fish and you're back to square one. Pros and cons with both, just different tools for different jobs and different people.

[Trader Pat]

One thing I'd be wary of If i was you is that you say in a later post you look for motivation on the forum.. I hope you meant inspiration? If you aren't motivated then trading isn't for you. It can be lonely, boring and pretty depressing in the summer when the sun is shining and all your friends are in the beer garden! If you're not motivated then chances are you'll lose money.

yes, motivation was a poor choice of word there.
I mainly meant that I'm looking for evidence that I am learning and focusing on the right things and not spend years studying the markets just to come to the conclusion that bots and excessive automation will hinder manual trading

I think what happens with most people is they'll start off losing money, then go through the break even phase. Once you get to break even you'll be on the right track. Its just a matter then of figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Another thing is record your trades if you don't already do it. If you look at enough markets you start to see patterns that repeat themselves over and over and you can miss a lot of signals in real time.

If you don't do any kind of automated trading then don't waste your time thinking about it. There's plenty of room in the markets for manual, automated and everything in between.

[ShaunWhite]

Your role as a trader is to look for opportunities, not problems or reasons why something won't work. You really won't do very well if you don't approach the market with a positive or innovative attitude.

All I've had my whole life is telling me why I couldn't do anything. If I would have listened to them I would never have achieved a sodding thing.

+1
Unless you've got an IQ below 100 you can do pretty much anything if work at it enough (footballer/pop star etc excluded).

Take a look at the people doing what you want to do (not just trading but anything). Are they any 'better' than you are, have they got an extra head or 5 arms or something? Nope. Just fairly ordinary people and if you can't aspire to being a fairly ordinary person then you need a shrink not a teacher.

[ShaunWhite]

.... the above is an extract from my standard reply whenever my son said "I can't". Followed by "you'd stand more chance if you got your arse out of bed once in a while"

[Derek27]

.... the above is an extract from my standard reply whenever my son said "I can't". Followed by "you'd stand more chance if you got your arse out of bed once in a while"

It's below to people who view their posts in descending order.

[Trader Pat]

Unless you've got an IQ below 100 you can do pretty much anything if work at it enough (footballer/pop star etc excluded).

Looks like most of us are destined to be very ordinary