Trading What I see !?

[ruthlessimon]

I'm interested since I was watching this, what do you mean by two way trade? Layers pushing up followed by backers down, and repeat?

yeah that's right. The price moves from 3.0 -> 3.5 -> 3.1 -> 3.5. & then £2K appears on the backside @ 3.5 (& isn't taken quickly). That's far too much two-way action for me; so I swerve the trade (I'm just not good enough to read that kinda action yet).

[goat68]

I'm interested since I was watching this, what do you mean by two way trade? Layers pushing up followed by backers down, and repeat?

yeah that's right. The price moves from 3.0 -> 3.5 -> 3.1 -> 3.5. & then £2K appears on the backside @ 3.5 (& isn't taken quickly). That's far too much two-way action for me; so I swerve the trade (I'm just not good enough to read that kinda action yet).

Thanks

[goat68]

I tried to give an example of what Shaun is saying earlier on in the thread.

I use a Servant for backing and laying to help with speed and reduce manual effort. I will enter 4 back or lay bets into the market using servant context for staking.

So my stake is £200 it will enter 4 x 25% of Servant context and offset each one, the first by 1 tick, the 2nd by 2 ticks, the 3rd by 3 ticks & the 4th by 4 ticks.

I use this Servant in the following way, if a horse is drifting I will look to enter for the break through whole numbers, so if I was laying for a break through 4 my offsets would be 25% of the stake at 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 & 4.4 with each one matched it gives me a little more breathing room and reduces the downside, im then looking for the break through 4.5 using the exact same method & if I'm at this point then my first trade through 4 gives me a buffer for my trade through 4.5 and then again through 5 etc.

What I'm trying to avoid is predicting where a price will move before its moved, instead im trying to get involved in something that is moving whilst managing my downside. I tried to chase a full move for years and it drove me insane, its much easier for me to take profits and reduce risk looking to take advantage of part of the drift or backing action.

Bet Angel makes it so simple, I use 3 keys to perform this type of trade,

Alt 1 (Lay Servant)
Alt 2 (Back Servant)
Alt A (Green all selections) also exits on negative trades.

There is are plenty of strategies knocking about and strategies vary depending on market conditions, a horse that is being backed, doesn't always follow the same pattern of behaviour or go through the same price points, its using the right tactic within that strategy that fits the market that you're in at that moment.

Find one setup and master that, then move on to find either variations of it that suit other market conditions or other strategies entirely.

Peter can flip flop through markets doing backflips. His toolbox has a tool for most, if not all market conditions. Where as you and i have to slowly collect the tools, find out where they are used and then practice our craft with them. The learning process is pretty much no diffedent to any other profession, it takes time, practice & education in the subject & with each trade that you take gives experience.

Dont focus on the outcome, focus on the process.

I used to do staged exit but found my winners were small compared to my losses where I just cut for a loss. However I think I will go back to it

[goat68]

New trade management this week, in order to make me think carefully about entering a trade and to stop me over trading I am limiting myself to 5 races a day.
I will also not report daily as it causes too much strategy switching as I lurch on my emotions...!!

[ShaunWhite]

I used to do staged exit but found my winners were small compared to my losses where I just cut for a loss. However I think I will go back to it

Maybe because you weren't doing reducing your position on the downside too, just on the upside?

But you've already had enough for one day..... Stay positive, the reason it takes so long to learn is because there's 10 things to think about every 2 seconds. Initially that isn't even physically possible and it takes time before some of those processes move from system 2 to system 1.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/114 ... t-and-slow

Even if you woke up tomorrow and knew everything you still probably couldn't execute it for that reason and that's the killer.

We've all just got crappy primate brains and hard-wiring responses to 21st century info overload takes ages. And even if you manage the job on one market you don't have the mental stamina yet to keep it up for 5hrs straight (too much high effort system 2).....so maybe trade one, watch one. And have a banana

[jamesg46]

I used to do staged exit but found my winners were small compared to my losses where I just cut for a loss. However I think I will go back to it

Maybe because you weren't doing reducing your position on the downside too, just on the upside?

I think you've just improved my trading, that's something I've completely neglected to think about & now I've read it, it seems so bloody obvious. Thanks Shaun!

[goat68]

I used to do staged exit but found my winners were small compared to my losses where I just cut for a loss. However I think I will go back to it

Maybe because you weren't doing reducing your position on the downside too, just on the upside?

I think you've just improved my trading, that's something I've completely neglected to think about & now I've read it, it seems so bloody obvious. Thanks Shaun!

So would this work something like:
1) enter say back £30 at 4.0
2) price moves to 4.1 reduce to £20
3) moves to 4.2 reduce to £10
4) moves back to 4, increase back to £30
5) to 3.9, take £10 profit
6) to 3.8, take another £10 profit
7) back to 4.1, cut final £10

?
A servant definitely needed for that?

[wearthefoxhat]

New trade management this week, in order to make me think carefully about entering a trade and to stop me over trading I am limiting myself to 5 races a day.
I will also not report daily as it causes too much strategy switching as I lurch on my emotions...!!

That's a good approach.

I was about to post, maybe choose 1 main trade/set up, and then a couple others in practice mode or through observations. Also, use time to review/analyse previous trades/performance. (for your own use not necessarily to share on the forum)

Remember;

never lose.jpg

[jamesg46]

Maybe because you weren't doing reducing your position on the downside too, just on the upside?

I think you've just improved my trading, that's something I've completely neglected to think about & now I've read it, it seems so bloody obvious. Thanks Shaun!

So would this work something like:
1) enter say back £30 at 4.0
2) price moves to 4.1 reduce to £20
3) moves to 4.2 reduce to £10
4) moves back to 4, increase back to £30
5) to 3.9, take £10 profit
6) to 3.8, take another £10 profit
7) back to 4.1, cut final £10

?
A servant definitely needed for that?

Something like this might help, I dont like to use stops this way but thats something you should decide. It might be worth thinking about the price range and where you are entering and set up multiple Servants, for example, if you're laying through 3 then why not devide your stake by more and spread your exits up to the next price point you would look to take advantage of, so your stake / 9 and offset up to 3.5. Same for backing, a break of 2 down to 1.9, a break through 1.9 down to 1.8 etc. You decide but i'd suggest, look to take advantage of one area first and then add areas later. The last thing you want is to set up 15 servants for different price ranges and then not remember all the keys you assigned them to, I also have mine set to trigger based on my mouse cursor which recently i've noticed is restricting me, I could be looking to enter on 1 runner and miss something on another, so my aim is to have servants assigned to specific ladders but that then means i'm going to end up with a tonne of key stroke combinations.

Also just because I look to trade this way doesn't mean it's the right way or that it's the way you should do it but hopefully it will help you out and give you some ideas about structuring your own process.

[jamesg46]

Thinking about it, im not sure that the stops would work that way on that servant, maybe the first stop to trigger would stop out the entire trade and not just one of the entries, if so you would have to do it manually anyway.

[jamesg46]

This is what i'm trying to explain. The horse has clearly been drifting, so my thoughts on this one was, I see support at 7 so if backers come in I could look to enter for a bounce off of 7 and then ride it back up for a break through 8 up to 9 and then through 9 up to 10. What happened was that layers came in and I took a position through 8 up to 9 and then missed the rest because i was focussing on screen shots, I got 3 of my exits matched and hit the green up because my initial entry was poor, I got matched at 8.2 I think & to explain the amounts I lay and back by book %.

[wearthefoxhat]

"Acorns" at work again...

Was 1.81 (Lay) when the 1.50 race went in-play

acorns3.jpg

acorns4.jpg

2 minutes before the off.

acorns5.jpg

[jimibt]

"Acorns" at work again...

Was 1.81 (Lay) when the 1.50 race went in-play


acorns3.jpg





acorns4.jpg



2 minutes before the off.


acorns5.jpg

the other factor at play here was that the 3rd fave was touching the 6 odds crossover and bounced off of that. that in effect rolled down and the fave had to react to that small steam by drifting out...

[goat68]

Blimey managing losses is not easy, just had one move 14 ticks against me in seconds

[goat68]

Also goes to show you might as well ignore any price action prior to 10mins, seems to mean nothing when all the money arrives.....