I was wondering how some of the non UK based traders deal with issues such as income tax etc when they make withdrawals from their accounts. In the UK I believe it is tax free (please correct me if am wrong).
I live outside the UK and I guess that if i was a successful trader, would be paying both Premium charge and some kind of income tax where i live. Therefore is it worth it? I ask myself.
For the time being this is ok for me because I am not consistently winning but when I do, I will have to make other arrangements.
Can others tell of their experiences?
cheers
Non UK traders
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
You should check the laws on your own country, they all have different aproaches, or simply ignore the issue.
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
I think I just messed up, I'm not advising you to ignore the issue, what I meant is that the laws in your country might just simply ignore the issue. 
Hi Grigsy
I think that the reason gambling is tax exempt in the UK is because, if it weren't, every self-employed person in the country who likes a flutter would submit their bets as a tax deductible business expense!
Given that the vast majority of people who bet lose money, that would cost the Inland Revenue more money than they'd gain from taxing the small minority of gamblers who actually come out with a profit.
Jeff
I think that the reason gambling is tax exempt in the UK is because, if it weren't, every self-employed person in the country who likes a flutter would submit their bets as a tax deductible business expense!
Given that the vast majority of people who bet lose money, that would cost the Inland Revenue more money than they'd gain from taxing the small minority of gamblers who actually come out with a profit.
Jeff
grigsy wrote:I believe in Australia, where I am, it is all classed as betting, so tax free. I don't think trading is big enough here to warrant the government introducing any kind of special tax legislation.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
That's incorrect mate, gambling used to be taxed in the UK and you couldn't claim back your losses then. I would love to see you putting a bet through as a business expenseFerru123 wrote:Hi Grigsy
I think that the reason gambling is tax exempt in the UK is because, if it weren't, every self-employed person in the country who likes a flutter would submit their bets as a tax deductible business expense!
Given that the vast majority of people who bet lose money, that would cost the Inland Revenue more money than they'd gain from taxing the small minority of gamblers who actually come out with a profit.
The reason for the removal of tax on gambling was because the government could get more tax revenues by taxing the bookies on a gross profits basis rather than by taxing the punter, or at least they could until they all disappeared offshore.
When I went self-employed I contacted the Inland Revenue
They told me that I would only be taxed if I was receiving money for advising other people how to gamble, or running a website where people paid for my services.
If I'm just sat at home trading on my laptop it's non-taxable, even if I earned £1 Million
I have no idea whether Andy's correct or not, or when this rule changed, but this is certainly the current stance of the UK Inland Revenue
They told me that I would only be taxed if I was receiving money for advising other people how to gamble, or running a website where people paid for my services.
If I'm just sat at home trading on my laptop it's non-taxable, even if I earned £1 Million
I have no idea whether Andy's correct or not, or when this rule changed, but this is certainly the current stance of the UK Inland Revenue
Hi Andy
Until a few years ago, bettors paid tax (which was a percentage of the sum won on winning bets, if I remember correctly). However, since 1925, income from betting has been tax exempt for income tax purposes. See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22017.htm.
So I stand by my theory that the reason that the Inland Revenue or the government haven't challenged that ruling is because it might result in a legal precedent which would cost the revenue money. Whilst you are correct in saying that the Revenue do tax the bookies, I doubt the government would have an ethical issue about creating an additional income stream by taxing successful punters too!
As an aside, there is a curious contradiction in the law when it comes to gambling. If I place a spread bet on the price of Sainsbury's rising over the next 12 months, and it does, my profit is tax exempt. If I were to buy some Sainsbury's shares today, and sell them in 12 months' time, that profit would be taxable.
Jeff
Until a few years ago, bettors paid tax (which was a percentage of the sum won on winning bets, if I remember correctly). However, since 1925, income from betting has been tax exempt for income tax purposes. See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22017.htm.
So I stand by my theory that the reason that the Inland Revenue or the government haven't challenged that ruling is because it might result in a legal precedent which would cost the revenue money. Whilst you are correct in saying that the Revenue do tax the bookies, I doubt the government would have an ethical issue about creating an additional income stream by taxing successful punters too!
As an aside, there is a curious contradiction in the law when it comes to gambling. If I place a spread bet on the price of Sainsbury's rising over the next 12 months, and it does, my profit is tax exempt. If I were to buy some Sainsbury's shares today, and sell them in 12 months' time, that profit would be taxable.
Jeff
andyfuller wrote:
That's incorrect mate, gambling used to be taxed in the UK and you couldn't claim back your losses then. I would love to see you putting a bet through as a business expense
The reason for the removal of tax on gambling was because the government could get more tax revenues by taxing the bookies on a gross profits basis rather than by taxing the punter, or at least they could until they all disappeared offshore.
Hi Gents,
and there was I thinking that they were just being kind to off course bettors since betting was tax free on course. I don't know whether or not it makes a difference to the debate, but you could pay the tax before you put the bet on, so you could have the pleasure of contributing to The Exchequer and doing your bit for the country even if you lost,
cheers, P
and there was I thinking that they were just being kind to off course bettors since betting was tax free on course. I don't know whether or not it makes a difference to the debate, but you could pay the tax before you put the bet on, so you could have the pleasure of contributing to The Exchequer and doing your bit for the country even if you lost,
cheers, P
Not quite sure what you mean,
but if mean your only income is From Trading / Gambling then you are not actually classed as self employed in the first place,
the Inland revenue just do not want to know about it.
You are just classed as unemployed on their records.
There is no National insurance to pay at all unless you want to pay it voluntary.
but if mean your only income is From Trading / Gambling then you are not actually classed as self employed in the first place,
the Inland revenue just do not want to know about it.
You are just classed as unemployed on their records.
There is no National insurance to pay at all unless you want to pay it voluntary.
I will try to explain my situation, I'm a betfair trader who win lets say 150.000e per year and live in UK but come form other europen country.
Now I don't know whay should I do to be 100% sure that I don't have to pay tax or I have to...
How should I report it to the Inland revenue ?
I'm a bit confused reading all about.
http://www.taxationweb.co.uk/forum/prof ... t1201.html
Now I don't know whay should I do to be 100% sure that I don't have to pay tax or I have to...
How should I report it to the Inland revenue ?
I'm a bit confused reading all about.
http://www.taxationweb.co.uk/forum/prof ... t1201.html
Freddy has explained it. Winnings from gambling are excempt from taxation. 'Trading' on betfair is just betting on the movement of odds, and as such is excempt from classification. This has been talked about on many other occassions on this forum and elsewhere. If you still don't believe it then I suggest you ask them at the tax office and they will likely tell you the same thing that they did to other people from here. If you're not in the UK then it doesnt even apply to you