Today's Football

[Kafkaesque]

Liverpool have got lucky with Plopp, then again United got lucky with SAF all those years ago, I fear for the immediate future but then again what goes around eh?, just wanna see United eclipse Liverpool with Champions League honours then I’ll die a happy man, sadly I don’t think that’ll ever happen, should have by now, but don’t think so..

The whole post was interesting Korattt but just picking out this bit. Looking at the 'lucky' appointments. You mention SAF and Klopp ... add Wenger to that list and it's about complete! Maybe someone like Moaniho comes next but to be 'lucky' you want the guy to stay around a bit, Moaniho got 'lucky' with Porto, had money at Chelsea and since then ... not much. Who else? Poch was a 'lucky' prospect but didn't live up to it and Pep came with a big fanfare but I think has found the PL and English football a harder nut than he expected (unless you count the 'League cup' which is more a testament to the depth of ability at his disposal than an achievement of winning). Couple that with the squad Pep inherited and the money in his transfer chest (and the additional rule breaking!) his time here has either burst his bubble or has shown the high quality the other 'average' PL managers have reached.

I don't much like Mourinho; not even when I have to see him in the Spurs dugout (though I'm slowly warming to the idea from a cold, cold starting point). Still, in terms of results, you're being very unkind.

I'll straight out make the claim that you didn't watch Mourinho's Porto very much, if you say that was lucky.

Had money at Chelsea, indeed. Money doesn't guarentee success. He made them champions within two years.

Not much since? Trolling right? Surely? The job he did at Inter was a masterclass. In the top 3 of managerial achievements in recent memory, no contest. Real was meh; a matter of opinion regarding how meh considering going against Messi/Xavi/Iniesta in their prime. United despite the way it ended was two trophies in two full seasons; two of the three trophies United have won in seven seasons since Ferguson.

[Korattt]

This! Well, kind of. Ole hasn't been let down imho. He just doesn't have it in him. He's not a leader of men, taking no BS. And tactically inept.

The issues are plenty. A few that sticks out to me.

wouldn’t say totally tactically inept, just lacking in managerial experience but I do agree what you say about the defence

[Kafkaesque]

This! Well, kind of. Ole hasn't been let down imho. He just doesn't have it in him. He's not a leader of men, taking no BS. And tactically inept.

The issues are plenty. A few that sticks out to me.

wouldn’t say totally tactically inept, just lacking in managerial experience but I do agree what you say about the defence

In relative, overall, football terms obviously he's not completely inept. In terms of being tactically inept by PL standards, I'd personally say yes. In terms of standards required to, for starters, consistently bring a team into the top 4 and, in time, bring a team into title consideration, I'd personally say yes, with more certainty than I'd claim much else within football.

Just lacking experience...fair enough. He might come good, given experience. But this would only apply as legitimate, if one of two circumstances were in play imo. Either being a club looking on from the outside and trying to break into the very top (ie. not being the - economically - biggest club in the UK), or having sure signs that the guy will indeed come good. I'm seeing no signs of that from the outside, but fair enough that it might be me being wrong and inept. It would though demand that the football operations and the decisions, on other non-managerial appointments, therein being at least decent (to convince me that there's some footballing brains on the inside seeing things, I don't). And those decisions are, well Alexis Sanchez-like.

[Derek27]

Having a match on my big screen is more for convenience than profit. I'm watching a US Super League on Sky and it's 5 seconds behind BLV.

Are you one of these guys who would watch any game of football just for the love of the game?

No, I just need pics for trading and don't know much about football but I still enjoy watching a game when trading. Everybody wants fast pics but my style of trading doesn't demand them so I'd sacrifice a few seconds for a big screen over that poxy Betfair window that you can't even enlargen.

[firlandsfarm]

No, I just need pics for trading and don't know much about football but I still enjoy watching a game when trading. Everybody wants fast pics but my style of trading doesn't demand them so I'd sacrifice a few seconds for a big screen over that poxy Betfair window that you can't even enlargen.

That's what I was getting at Derek, if you use your screen/subscription for trading then it's a business expense and not a personal spend.

[Derek27]

No, I just need pics for trading and don't know much about football but I still enjoy watching a game when trading. Everybody wants fast pics but my style of trading doesn't demand them so I'd sacrifice a few seconds for a big screen over that poxy Betfair window that you can't even enlargen.

That's what I was getting at Derek, if you use your screen/subscription for trading then it's a business expense and not a personal spend.

I never thought of that. I don't include my computer as a business asset or broadband as a business expense because I'd have them anyway but it might be more appropriate to split the cost, 99.9% business and 0.1% personal.

[Kai]

I have no idea why a club the size of United doesn't have a director of football. Or a manager for that matter. Those 2 vacancies need to be filled for the club to go forward.

You can't exactly expect good transfers if you leave that job up to a glorified accountant, hiring a football person should be a no-brainer really.

[firlandsfarm]

I don't much like Mourinho; not even when I have to see him in the Spurs dugout (though I'm slowly warming to the idea from a cold, cold starting point). Still, in terms of results, you're being very unkind.

Sorry, I've never liked Moaniho hence my name for him ... he is always moaning why things did not go the way he wanted/planned and it's never his fault. And if he's that good why can't he hold a job down for more than a couple of years.

I'll straight out make the claim that you didn't watch Mourinho's Porto very much, if you say that was lucky.

As per Korattt's post I wasn't saying he was lucky at Porto, I was saying Porto was 'lucky' to have him same as Korattt was saying "Liverpool have got lucky with Plopp ... United got lucky with SAF" and Arsenal were 'lucky' with AW.

Had money at Chelsea, indeed. Money doesn't guarentee success.

No, he's proved that ... in his case it rented success!

Anyway I just wouldn't put him in the same class as SAF and AW. Klopp still needs to prove himself though he is off to a good start (as Moaniho was) ... I did put Moaniho as being 'next' but not quite there partly because I agree with Korattt's comment that to really make it you need to set up a home and do it regularly. Most managers make an initial impact (Moyes excluded!). I think this could be a reason why many managers last 2 - 3 years and then move on. The difference between a good manager and a great one is the ability to keep it going for years after. Klopp hasn't been at 'pool long enough and Moaniho has never managed to stay at a club long enough to show he can do it.

[firlandsfarm]

I never thought of that. I don't include my computer as a business asset or broadband as a business expense because I'd have them anyway but it might be more appropriate to split the cost, 99.9% business and 0.1% personal.

If you are trading bets I wouldn't expect you to be paying tax, maybe you have other pies. But if you do have taxable activities then what about your home office ... you would "have your home anyway" but you could/should be making a claim in respect of it (I'm going by UK tax laws).

[Derek27]

I never thought of that. I don't include my computer as a business asset or broadband as a business expense because I'd have them anyway but it might be more appropriate to split the cost, 99.9% business and 0.1% personal.

If you are trading bets I wouldn't expect you to be paying tax, maybe you have other pies. But if you do have taxable activities then what about your home office ... you would "have your home anyway" but you could/should be making a claim in respect of it (I'm going by UK tax laws).

I don't pay tax but I like to have accurate accounts. I'm gonna re-write my accounting database as the code's been getting messy over the years so I'll have a rethink for the new year.

[Trader Pat]

Maybe someone like Moaniho comes next but to be 'lucky' you want the guy to stay around a bit, Moaniho got 'lucky' with Porto, had money at Chelsea and since then ... not much.

You're forgetting the small matter of a treble with Inter. I'm not a big fan of Mourinho but in his pomp he was the best manager in the world. You don't win Champions League's with Porto and Inter through luck.

As for United in my opinion Solskjaer is out of his depth, he comes across as a scout leader who was given a job leading a seal team. Solskjaer has been the coach for 2 years and the team still has no identity. Klopp didnt win anything at Liverpool in his first few seasons but there were clear signs of progression. Even Arsenal are showing signs of that under Arteta and he's only been there 5 minutes.

Poch appearing on MNF tonight is a signal to the world that he's ready to step back into the dugout. Utd have huge problems off the pitch yes, but Poch would be an upgrade on Solskjaer.

[firlandsfarm]

Maybe someone like Moaniho comes next but to be 'lucky' you want the guy to stay around a bit, Moaniho got 'lucky' with Porto, had money at Chelsea and since then ... not much.

You're forgetting the small matter of a treble with Inter. I'm not a big fan of Mourinho but in his pomp he was the best manager in the world. You don't win Champions League's with Porto and Inter through luck.

Pat, you're also getting the 'luck' the wrong way round ... I was using 'lucky' within the context of Korattt's post that the team was lucky to have the manager! But maybe I have misunderstood Korattt's post. Anyway I stick with my contention that to be a great manager you need to stay with a team for more than 2-3 years and regularly harvest success as SAF and AW did (though not in his later years hindered by spending restrictions ... since AW's departure Arsenal haven't actually improved much!).

[Trader Pat]

Maybe someone like Moaniho comes next but to be 'lucky' you want the guy to stay around a bit, Moaniho got 'lucky' with Porto, had money at Chelsea and since then ... not much.

You're forgetting the small matter of a treble with Inter. I'm not a big fan of Mourinho but in his pomp he was the best manager in the world. You don't win Champions League's with Porto and Inter through luck.

Pat, you're also getting the 'luck' the wrong way round ... I was using 'lucky' within the context of Korattt's post that the team was lucky to have the manager! But maybe I have misunderstood Korattt's post. Anyway I stick with my contention that to be a great manager you need to stay with a team for more than 2-3 years and regularly harvest success as SAF and AW did (though not in his later years hindered by spending restrictions ... since AW's departure Arsenal haven't actually improved much!).

Ok I'm confused Sry if I got it the wrong way around though!

For me Ferguson will go down as the best 'domestic' manager of all time due to his longevity and ability to totally dismantle title winning teams and re-build them but I don't think he deserves the title of best club manager ever. 2 European titles in 20 odd years isn't enough for that crown.

[Kai]

The Power of Narrative

[Trader Pat]

The power of hypocrisy more like.

Just like most 'journalists', pundits, commentators etc... they all make a hypocrite of themselves eventually