Betfair switches to Gibraltar
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Interesting snipet from the Terms and Conditions which settles an argument that has been open to question for some time:
Section 4.2
You bet with us, not with other customers who use our service. We do not permit customers to bet with each other under any circumstances. We will post the details of your offer to us on our Exchange. An offer so posted on our Exchange also constitutes an offer by us to each of our other customers which may be accepted by them in accordance with the Terms and Conditions applicable to that customer.
That was in the Australian section not sure if it is in the UK section as well yet.
Section 4.2
You bet with us, not with other customers who use our service. We do not permit customers to bet with each other under any circumstances. We will post the details of your offer to us on our Exchange. An offer so posted on our Exchange also constitutes an offer by us to each of our other customers which may be accepted by them in accordance with the Terms and Conditions applicable to that customer.
That was in the Australian section not sure if it is in the UK section as well yet.
# Operation of the Exchange
We reserve the right to refuse to post your offer on our Exchange without giving prior notice.
We may restrict you from using programs designed to automatically place bets within certain parameters (e.g. to back or lay at a certain price) ("bots") either generally or in relation to any specific bot if we believe that you have used a bot:
1. to the detriment of our business;
2. to place bets on, or manipulate, any Market which has the purpose or effect of adversely affecting the integrity of the Exchange or any Market.
You may not nominate individuals to be counterparties to any of your offers for bets.
Notwithstanding any statement to the contrary in these Specific Conditions or in the General Conditions, we may elect, in certain very limited circumstances, to act as counterparty in respect of bets or offers for bets. If we do so, we will take reasonable steps to bring this to your attention. In addition to the usual bet matching process, many markets on Betfair use a process called cross-selection matching (“cross-matching”) to match bets. When a bet request cannot be matched by an opposing bet on the same selection, by operating cross-matching Betfair will attempt to match the bet request with unmatched liquidity on the remaining selections in the market. Separately during the reconciliation of the Betfair Starting Price, Betfair acts as counterparty in order to balance liabilities between exchange bets and Betfair Starting Price bets.
I remember reading awhile back HMRC looking at ways of taxing individual bets on BF.
Does anyone know if this move offshore removes this threat?
In other words is it possible the government will try and raise their revenue from punters/traders since BF are putting themselves out of reach.
Does anyone know if this move offshore removes this threat?
In other words is it possible the government will try and raise their revenue from punters/traders since BF are putting themselves out of reach.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
The general thought is that the governent are looking at a way off banning offshore bookies from advertising in the UK. Whether this is legal is open to question, as is the implementation of it given a lot of advertising is online these days, furthermore why stop at bookies why not start banning al offshore companies such as Topshop.
Betfair are obviously pretty confident that no such change is coming soon or else they wouldn't have moved.
Also take out bookmaker sponsorship from racing and the sport will have almost no sponsors.
Can't see any change to the taxation on betting though.
I am sure the government are watching Ireland's approach closely.
Betfair are obviously pretty confident that no such change is coming soon or else they wouldn't have moved.
Also take out bookmaker sponsorship from racing and the sport will have almost no sponsors.
Can't see any change to the taxation on betting though.
I am sure the government are watching Ireland's approach closely.
is this to cover themselves for a potential u turn if there are any legislation changes?Exceptional Circumstances
Whilst it is intended that the Exchange will operate under Betfair's Gibraltar licence, we reserve the right at any time, including, without limitation, for disaster recovery purposes:
i.to request that Betfair Limited, on its own account provides you with betting facilities. Should Betfair Limited agree to provide you with such betting facilities, you agree that such facilities will be provided to you subject to the laws of England and Wales and subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales and subject to the exclusion of Clause 7 below will otherwise be provided to you subject to these Specific Conditions and the General Conditions; or
ii.to assign this Agreement to another company(s) affiliated with Betfair, in which case such other company(s) will act as agent for, and provide services to us, to ensure that the Exchange will be available to you, subject to these Specific Conditions and the General Conditions.
Third parties do not have the ability to enforce any part of this Agreement save in respect of the rights of counterparties to enforce your duty of good faith directly against you. This Agreement, may however be varied at any time without the consent of any counterparties to any bets struck through the Exchange.
These Specific Conditions have been prepared in various languages other than English for reference only. In the event of any differences between the English version of these Specific Conditions and any non-English versions, the English version shall prevail.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Something else just occurred to me re- reading this.Bet Angel wrote:Betfair will continue to support British horse racing by committing the same amount of money to the sport that the Company has been paying via the statutory levy for the remainder of the 49th Levy Scheme and on the terms set out for the 50th Levy Scheme.
The 49th Levy Scheme runs out on the 31st March 2011, so Betfair will continue to support Racing by commiting the same amount of mpney to the sport that it has been paying under the Levy for a further 23 days.
After this, April 1st 2011, will Betfair just be paying the Levy as set out for the 50th Levy Scheme (i.e. bugger all)? Or will they continue to contribute to the sport to the tune of what they would have had to have paid under Levy?
Guess only Betfair know - but it is a bloody well crafted PR release which I think only time will tell what it actually means...I worry it is that they wont continue to contribute (Not that they are under any obligation to).
I think the levy board's long-term prospects are poor.
Racing needs to find a way of financing itself, because the comfortable subsidy from the levy board is going to run dry.
I predict that 20 racecourses will disappear over the next 10 years, and we'll simply see more meetings at the bigger tracks. I struggle to see how courses like Cartmel, Market Rasen etc can possibly survive in this changing world
Racing needs to find a way of financing itself, because the comfortable subsidy from the levy board is going to run dry.
I predict that 20 racecourses will disappear over the next 10 years, and we'll simply see more meetings at the bigger tracks. I struggle to see how courses like Cartmel, Market Rasen etc can possibly survive in this changing world
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Yep - I fully agree. Change is needed and with that will come some tough decisions and times for some.
I think people in racing are often guilty of harping back to the good old days, what I feel is needed is a leaner meaner racing industry. Jobs will be lost, people will go out of business but it is no different to say the steel industry, racing is not a special case imo that deserves to be protected - I don't think many understand that in racing, speaking from my own personal experience.
I think people in racing are often guilty of harping back to the good old days, what I feel is needed is a leaner meaner racing industry. Jobs will be lost, people will go out of business but it is no different to say the steel industry, racing is not a special case imo that deserves to be protected - I don't think many understand that in racing, speaking from my own personal experience.
Hi Andy,
I agree in the main.
Unfortunately it was a Sport before it was hijacked and became "An Industry"
Redundancy in most cases, for the main participants, will mean beng shot.
Come to think of it maybe that "Model" will be adopted across the othe "Industries"
Or should the other Industries be a special case.
Banks were Special cases and took a lot of money to "support" them. I would have preferred it if they had been allowed to fail.
My tuppence worth
Dobbin
I agree in the main.
Unfortunately it was a Sport before it was hijacked and became "An Industry"
Redundancy in most cases, for the main participants, will mean beng shot.
Come to think of it maybe that "Model" will be adopted across the othe "Industries"
Or should the other Industries be a special case.
Banks were Special cases and took a lot of money to "support" them. I would have preferred it if they had been allowed to fail.
My tuppence worth
Dobbin
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
The equine population for racing is still ridiculously large. It is largely tied in to the general economic boom we experienced.
Problem is that you can not respond quickly to changes with regards to breeding, for the flat you are looking at a minimum of 3 years and far longer for the jumps industry.
This from Jan 2011 highlights it:
The Irish foal crop has fallen by 39 per cent in three years, to 7,588 last year from 12,419 in 2008, while the British crop has dropped 21 per cent, to 4,665 from 5,920.
What on earth were the Irish doing producing 12,419 foals a year!
I know a lot of people who tried their hands at breeding as the prices were going up and up for foals and yearlings caused largely due to the economic boom. The buying power of the Irish was growing massively, the Sheikh and his mates were spending more so it just looked like the propery market, buy a house slap some paint on and make money, buy a mare, get her in foal on the ever increasing lines of credit offered by the studs which let you pay when you sold or cut you a deal of some sort, go to the sales and collect your pay cheque.
A few I know got in and out and made some good money but the vast majority were left holding the baby when the economy crashed. They are now left scrabbling around at the mid to lower end struggling to sell as the market just isn't there bar at the top end.
Also the sport is far to reliant upon Sheikh Mohammed. Take him out and you say goodbye to racing as we know it and Newmarket as we know it.
So yes a correction in the industry will require horses to be put down but don't blame the restructuring of the industry for that imo you blame the boom in foal production by the huge numbers of people who were looking for an easy buck.
Problem is that you can not respond quickly to changes with regards to breeding, for the flat you are looking at a minimum of 3 years and far longer for the jumps industry.
This from Jan 2011 highlights it:
The Irish foal crop has fallen by 39 per cent in three years, to 7,588 last year from 12,419 in 2008, while the British crop has dropped 21 per cent, to 4,665 from 5,920.
What on earth were the Irish doing producing 12,419 foals a year!
I know a lot of people who tried their hands at breeding as the prices were going up and up for foals and yearlings caused largely due to the economic boom. The buying power of the Irish was growing massively, the Sheikh and his mates were spending more so it just looked like the propery market, buy a house slap some paint on and make money, buy a mare, get her in foal on the ever increasing lines of credit offered by the studs which let you pay when you sold or cut you a deal of some sort, go to the sales and collect your pay cheque.
A few I know got in and out and made some good money but the vast majority were left holding the baby when the economy crashed. They are now left scrabbling around at the mid to lower end struggling to sell as the market just isn't there bar at the top end.
Also the sport is far to reliant upon Sheikh Mohammed. Take him out and you say goodbye to racing as we know it and Newmarket as we know it.
So yes a correction in the industry will require horses to be put down but don't blame the restructuring of the industry for that imo you blame the boom in foal production by the huge numbers of people who were looking for an easy buck.
Instead of putting them down maybe they could be put to work and used for transportation - with oil prices going up and up maybe we could use them and return to a simpler pace of life. Wouldn't be any less comfortable than stagecoach buses or any less reliable than the tube anyway 
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I agree it used to be a sport and should go back to being a sport. A new breed of player has come along who expect to make money from racing. I have had this argument time and again with people in the sport I know and who expect to come out on top.
I see no reason why they should, there is no other sport to my mind where people bar a few come out with a profit. I don't expect to make any money from running, it costs a lot of money to enter events, get to them etc etc but I don't go cap in hand asking where is my payout.
Just because racing is a very expensive sport to take part in shouldn't make it any different. It just means only those with enough money should take part.
I would love to drink Champagne every day but I can't afford to so I have to make do with a less expensive drink.
It should go back to being a sport and I think it will be forced into doing so as the general public are becoming less and less interested in the sport itself - only reason attendances have held up is because of the bands after racing and the like, they go to see the X Factor finalists not the final race!
I see no reason why they should, there is no other sport to my mind where people bar a few come out with a profit. I don't expect to make any money from running, it costs a lot of money to enter events, get to them etc etc but I don't go cap in hand asking where is my payout.
Just because racing is a very expensive sport to take part in shouldn't make it any different. It just means only those with enough money should take part.
I would love to drink Champagne every day but I can't afford to so I have to make do with a less expensive drink.
It should go back to being a sport and I think it will be forced into doing so as the general public are becoming less and less interested in the sport itself - only reason attendances have held up is because of the bands after racing and the like, they go to see the X Factor finalists not the final race!