Trading What I see !?

[goat68]

Well I think someone said a while back, this thread will be another 6 month wonder....!

yeah, alas, that was me:

...
Sir goat - i admire your commentary but feel that you are honestly expecting far too much far too soon. Slow down, reflect and be realistic, those traits will see you still making comments here in 2 years time. trust me. All the go faster guys that i've seen on here suddenly have a ZERO post history after about 4-6 months (you can check!!), which indicates (to me) sudden realisation/failure.

it's about the pace, not about the race.

good luck moving on.. come back refreshed.

Thanks
It's obvious you're a profitable trader you anticipated the future

[jimibt]

Well I think someone said a while back, this thread will be another 6 month wonder....!

yeah, alas, that was me:

...
Sir goat - i admire your commentary but feel that you are honestly expecting far too much far too soon. Slow down, reflect and be realistic, those traits will see you still making comments here in 2 years time. trust me. All the go faster guys that i've seen on here suddenly have a ZERO post history after about 4-6 months (you can check!!), which indicates (to me) sudden realisation/failure.

it's about the pace, not about the race.

good luck moving on.. come back refreshed.

Thanks
It's obvious you're a profitable trader you anticipated the future

i just know that this 4-6 month period is make or break for many... time away and a change of tack (no pun intended) might be all that's needed - PLUS a slower more considered approach. just my thoughts from backreading a bit on this thread.

[Dallas]

Goat, have you looked at doing just one thing as in watch and wait for just one scenario to unfold?

ie, look for the fav about to steam in, ignore everything else so it might mean going several races without a trade
Peters done a video on this which is well worth a watch (even if you've seen it before)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laJGJ6ZYXfo

When you strip away everything else and focus all your attention on one type of situation you'll probably find you see things you wouldn't normally while looking at anything and everything. Then as Peter says in the video once you've mastered that then you begin looking for something else and slowly build up from that

[goat68]

Goat, have you looked at doing just one thing as in watch and wait for just one scenario to unfold?

ie, look for the fav about to steam in, ignore everything else so it might mean going several races without a trade
Peters done a video on this which is well worth a watch (even if you've seen it before)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laJGJ6ZYXfo

When you strip away everything else and focus all your attention on one type of situation you'll probably find you see things you wouldn't normally while looking at anything and everything. Then as Peter says in the video once you've mastered that then you begin looking for something else and slowly build up from that

I have tried that of sorts, but limited success, they don't occur very often, and I typically didn't read them that we'll and picked steamers that drifted after I got on board!
Also my impatience meant I looked for steamers when they weren't really!

[goat68]

Goat, have you looked at doing just one thing as in watch and wait for just one scenario to unfold?

ie, look for the fav about to steam in, ignore everything else so it might mean going several races without a trade
Peters done a video on this which is well worth a watch (even if you've seen it before)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laJGJ6ZYXfo

When you strip away everything else and focus all your attention on one type of situation you'll probably find you see things you wouldn't normally while looking at anything and everything. Then as Peter says in the video once you've mastered that then you begin looking for something else and slowly build up from that

Also due to work, I had set hours in the day when I could trade, so I couldn't wait all day for a steamer, which of course with my impatience meant in those 2hours I would push something else...
The bottom line though is pre race is a frustrating place which I don't think matches my personality

[Dallas]

Goat, have you looked at doing just one thing as in watch and wait for just one scenario to unfold?

ie, look for the fav about to steam in, ignore everything else so it might mean going several races without a trade
Peters done a video on this which is well worth a watch (even if you've seen it before)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laJGJ6ZYXfo

When you strip away everything else and focus all your attention on one type of situation you'll probably find you see things you wouldn't normally while looking at anything and everything. Then as Peter says in the video once you've mastered that then you begin looking for something else and slowly build up from that

I have tried that of sorts, but limited success, they don't occur very often, and I typically didn't read them that we'll and picked steamers that drifted after I got on board!
Also my impatience meant I looked for steamers when they weren't really!

I think you've identified your problem 'impatience' not sure I can advise how to overcome that but what I can say is for 75% of my pre-racing I only focused on one set-up which was to avoid all competitive markets, H'caps etc and scalping and only look for uncompetitive (a short priced fav).

This meant for several years when it got to winter and there was no more than 2 cards for days at a time I'd often only trade a max of 3-4 races a day, but my mind set was always 'I'm here for the afternoon and I'd rather trade 1-3 and be confident of a good profit than try and trade them all', I knew i'd only be giving money away if I got involved in others out of boredom.

Anyway I hope you crack it, you just need to find a way to get the 'impatient' mindset out the way

[CallumPerry]

Perhaps during your time away, you could set up some automation to record some markets? Get some data and start looking for an edge if your mindset is maybe swinging that way. Download/create some of the servants mentioned recently so if you do come back you have a plan.

Only trade certain markets like Dallas has suggested. Write all of these down. Plan your day at the start of every session EVERY time and get some screen recording software set up. Get used to trading this way, really tightly regimented, and spend more time analysing your performance with video playback than you do in the market for a month.

[goat68]

Perhaps during your time away, you could set up some automation to record some markets? Get some data and start looking for an edge if your mindset is maybe swinging that way. Download/create some of the servants mentioned recently so if you do come back you have a plan.

Only trade certain markets like Dallas has suggested. Write all of these down. Plan your day at the start of every session EVERY time and get some screen recording software set up. Get used to trading this way, really tightly regimented, and spend more time analysing your performance with video playback than you do in the market for a month.

Thanks for the tips, all makes sense.
I must be honest and say trying to do this in between a day job helped feed my impatience, and I was probably not at my best mentally most of the time due to this. You can't do this in your spare time.... I need something that is a bit slower than pre-race, some say football is (well Kai implied that with his pictures!) But I'd be back to square one again......!

[alexmr2]

Another big losing day...

I see you are still using a several hundred live bank even though I commented 3+ times to stick to practice mode or £100 live bank max for the first 2 years. If you can't do that then it's probably best to call it a day before you dig yourself into a five figure red like I and many others have

i just know that this 4-6 month period is make or break for many

4-6 months? I've been doing this almost every day for 26 months and my P&L is still going the wrong way

[CallumPerry]

I'm a teacher. I realised after a period of time that I was far better suited to automation and have loved it ever since. It is a whole new battleground but everything you've learned so far is fully applicable.

If you return to manual, please use those tips. Even if it is for football or greyhounds or cricket or whatever. You've had your spell of 'feeling' the markets now. Now you return more methodical and professional.

[jimibt]

Another big losing day...

I see you are still using a several hundred live bank even though I commented 3+ times to stick to practice mode or £100 live bank max for the first 2 years. If you can't do that then it's probably best to call it a day before you dig yourself into a five figure red like I and many others have

i just know that this 4-6 month period is make or break for many

4-6 months? I've been doing this almost every day for 26 months and my P&L is still going the wrong way

tbh, i was referring to hi energy threads and *no time to lose* approaches that peak after about 4-6 months and then you never hear of the OP again. like yourself, acknowledge that p&l takes time to develop - quite a contrast...

[alexmr2]

tbh, i was referring to hi energy threads and *no time to lose* approaches that peak after about 4-6 months and then you never hear of the OP again. like yourself, acknowledge that p&l takes time to develop - quite a contrast...

True, trading seems like something that can be learned quick after watching some videos. As you get familiar with the markets it gives the illusion that "it's just around the corner", but this isn't the case because it takes a lot of time to overcome the psychological obstacles and get a proper feel for how the markets move, to know which markets to trade and the best time to trade them.

I imagine that paid courses tend to use a 6 months round figure (which is way off these days), because saying it would take years would scare customers away. It's also not in professional traders' interest to scare off newbies from providing liquidity. All this means that people turn up to the game and expect to make a living from it within a few weeks or months. It makes a lot more sense that it takes years to get to this stage when most of the competition is people that have tens or even hundreds of thousands markets experience

[goat68]

tbh, i was referring to hi energy threads and *no time to lose* approaches that peak after about 4-6 months and then you never hear of the OP again. like yourself, acknowledge that p&l takes time to develop - quite a contrast...

True, trading seems like something that can be learned quick after watching some videos. As you get familiar with the markets it gives the illusion that "it's just around the corner", but this isn't the case because it takes a lot of time to overcome the psychological obstacles and get a proper feel for how the markets move, to know which markets to trade and the best time to trade them.

I imagine that paid courses tend to use a 6 months round figure (which is way off these days), because saying it would take years would scare customers away. It's also not in professional traders' interest to scare off newbies from providing liquidity. All this means that people turn up to the game and expect to make a living from it within a few weeks or months. It makes a lot more sense that it takes years to get to this stage when most of the competition is people that have tens or even hundreds of thousands markets experience

I didn't lose any money on a Saturday, hoorah!!

So I must admit all the videos do draw you in a bit to a false sense of it being easy. Just watched Peters latest video references on twitter, Why I get up in the night..., and trading small stakes... And sorry Peter to be a bit objectional, but a little empathy for those who can't make this work might be helpful... You never mention how much you lost in your first few years or how many years you took to become profitable?
I know you want to help, which is much appreciated, but some guidance on expectations might be useful?

[alexmr2]

I didn't lose any money on a Saturday, hoorah!!

So I must admit all the videos do draw you in a bit to a false sense of it being easy. Just watched Peters latest video references on twitter, Why I get up in the night..., and trading small stakes... And sorry Peter to be a bit objectional, but a little empathy for those who can't make this work might be helpful... You never mention how much you lost in your first few years or how many years you took to become profitable?
I know you want to help, which is much appreciated, but some guidance on expectations might be useful?

Well done on today. I think we are similar when sometimes it seems easy and have a good day and then another day it seems impossible so we end up doing something stupid and giving all the profit and more away. I always think this is what separates the winners from the losers, that the winners know when not to get involved. I always hold on to the idea that if I keep doing it I should slowly win more and lose less but I don't seem to be turning around my long-term results any time soon

When Peter started things were very different. He was one of the first people to do it so I assume that the majority of the market would have been dumb money early on, but at the same time there was a lot less liquidity and he would have had to figure everything out from scratch with no learning material available. I think I am also right in saying that there was no crossmatching before 2010 so there was another edge if you could back the field to have a green book from the overround being well over 100% at times?

[Derek27]

Fuck me!!! I was about to say I've got a thread much bigger than yours, but when I looked at my Rant Corner which is over three years old (kindly started by Kerberus) I realised you've already exceeded it in a few months!

Anyway, what I was going to say is that I've learnt a lot from the rant thread, such as dealing with Betfair CS, good weather sites, how to fill the gaps in patio slabs, dealing with a cat that craps/vomits all over the place, even where I can get a nude cleaner from!

All those nuggets of information and advice are things that I can action immediately and if useful I'm likely to remember without needing to refer to the thread again. The problem with having a thread where you spill out every thought, feeling, trade, day's result and ask for opinion is that you'll get a lot of good advice that just gets buried under your "good day today, did this" or "bad day today, did that" posts. You won't get much benefit from this forum by simply blogging what you're doing without noting the feedback.