Today's Horse Racing

[beermonsterman]

Sorry them graphs came out of nowhere I'm not used to some of the features in this forum

[Euler]

Personally I don't use automation as I see absolutely no reason as to why it should return a long-term profit.

I'm starting to think this... It's as though the market is continually changing, as in daily and no automation can match that change profitably, not unless you have the ability of an AI (like human brain!). So manually trading has a huge advantage there.

I'm really meaning the full automation where you go to work (or go to sleep) and come back (or wake up) and see a load of profit. Those who can make this work, great use it all you can but don't be too upset when a 'Hound of Hounslow' fleeces you one night and you're back to square one.

That said there are several pieces of 'semi-automation' (servants) that can do simple tasks more quickly than you can do manually, so I can see a good use for those in moderation or in specific circumstances.

...but as always, each to their own - your P&L with let you know if you're getting it right!

I think you are missing a trick.

My journey was one of a purely manual trader, to some semi-automation then full automation that runs literally 24x7

But it was a slow and steady journey to that point, bit by bit.

But it was only possible when Betfair changed the API to move away from a 20 call limit.

Manual and automated strategies are often very different, but there is a bridge to manual strategies as you can use automation to supplement manual trading and that's the key to unlocking a fully automated strategy.

[beermonsterman]

Very poor liquidity here

[Tuco]

I think you are missing a trick.

My journey was one of a purely manual trader, to some semi-automation then full automation that runs literally 24x7

But it was a slow and steady journey to that point, bit by bit.

But it was only possible when Betfair changed the API to move away from a 20 call limit.

Manual and automated strategies are often very different, but there is a bridge to manual strategies as you can use automation to supplement manual trading and that's the key to unlocking a fully automated strategy.

Yes, I don't doubt that Peter. I'm currently in the 'happy to use some semi-automation stage'.

Do you use your full automation on markets other than horse racing?

[beermonsterman]

I'm starting to think this... It's as though the market is continually changing, as in daily and no automation can match that change profitably, not unless you have the ability of an AI (like human brain!). So manually trading has a huge advantage there.

I'm really meaning the full automation where you go to work (or go to sleep) and come back (or wake up) and see a load of profit. Those who can make this work, great use it all you can but don't be too upset when a 'Hound of Hounslow' fleeces you one night and you're back to square one.

That said there are several pieces of 'semi-automation' (servants) that can do simple tasks more quickly than you can do manually, so I can see a good use for those in moderation or in specific circumstances.

...but as always, each to their own - your P&L with let you know if you're getting it right!

I think you are missing a trick.

My journey was one of a purely manual trader, to some semi-automation then full automation that runs literally 24x7

But it was a slow and steady journey to that point, bit by bit.

But it was only possible when Betfair changed the API to move away from a 20 call limit.

Manual and automated strategies are often very different, but there is a bridge to manual strategies as you can use automation to supplement manual trading and that's the key to unlocking a fully automated strategy.

Thank you Euler very encouraging words here that keep me hopeful and ticking along with my automation You have just sparked another automated rules build here I go again lol

[Korattt]

Me too I read the markets pretty well also just proves that some days a diamonds and some days are rocks its how we see the markets and not force a trade is key for me as I'm very impatient

think having at least three cards running during the day does help

[Tuco]

I think you are missing a trick.

My journey was one of a purely manual trader, to some semi-automation then full automation that runs literally 24x7

But it was a slow and steady journey to that point, bit by bit.

I think that's the important part - I see people saying they're not full time and they've been doing this for 6 months etc...

As well as Peter, Calvin Coolidge (30th US President) had it right:

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

[goat68]

I'm starting to think this... It's as though the market is continually changing, as in daily and no automation can match that change profitably, not unless you have the ability of an AI (like human brain!). So manually trading has a huge advantage there.

I'm really meaning the full automation where you go to work (or go to sleep) and come back (or wake up) and see a load of profit. Those who can make this work, great use it all you can but don't be too upset when a 'Hound of Hounslow' fleeces you one night and you're back to square one.

That said there are several pieces of 'semi-automation' (servants) that can do simple tasks more quickly than you can do manually, so I can see a good use for those in moderation or in specific circumstances.

...but as always, each to their own - your P&L with let you know if you're getting it right!

I think you are missing a trick.

My journey was one of a purely manual trader, to some semi-automation then full automation that runs literally 24x7

But it was a slow and steady journey to that point, bit by bit.

But it was only possible when Betfair changed the API to move away from a 20 call limit.

Manual and automated strategies are often very different, but there is a bridge to manual strategies as you can use automation to supplement manual trading and that's the key to unlocking a fully automated strategy.

Ditto, thanks Peter for the encouragement.

[Korattt]

Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent

Tuco, that statement is mahoosive

[goat68]

I think you are missing a trick.

My journey was one of a purely manual trader, to some semi-automation then full automation that runs literally 24x7

But it was a slow and steady journey to that point, bit by bit.

I think that's the important part - I see people saying they're not full time and they've been doing this for 6 months etc...

As well as Peter, Calvin Coolidge (30th US President) had it right:

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

I agree I am sure persistence and determination are what is needed. But I do question, especially in today's markets compared to 20years ago when it was a lot different and I suggest easier, is it healthy for a person to spend years continually losing with no reward until some magical point some years down the road when they reach the bottom and become profitable? I've heard on these forums of some people losing 1000s over 2-3 years and still not profitable, this can't be healthy?
I've been at this now about 8months, and i've not had any sustained reward, are you saying "keep going and getting beaten, you'll get there in the end?"
I think you've got to "enjoy" it regardless of the fact you may always lose. It's not great enjoyment to continually manually trade, or create bot after bot, and for it to just lose... where's the fun in that?
"You've got to enjoy it not for the winning, but for the taking part."

[beermonsterman]

I think you are missing a trick.

My journey was one of a purely manual trader, to some semi-automation then full automation that runs literally 24x7

But it was a slow and steady journey to that point, bit by bit.

I think that's the important part - I see people saying they're not full time and they've been doing this for 6 months etc...

As well as Peter, Calvin Coolidge (30th US President) had it right:

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

I agree I am sure persistence and determination are what is needed. But I do question, especially in today's markets compared to 20years ago when it was a lot different and I suggest easier, is it healthy for a person to spend years continually losing with no reward until some magical point some years down the road when they reach the bottom and become profitable? I've heard on these forums of some people losing 1000s over 2-3 years and still not profitable, this can't be healthy?
I've been at this now about 8months, and i've not had any sustained reward, are you saying "keep going and getting beaten, you'll get there in the end?"
I think you've got to "enjoy" it regardless of the fact you may always lose. It's not great enjoyment to continually manually trade, or create bot after bot, and for it to just lose... where's the fun in that?
"You've got to enjoy it not for the winning, but for the taking part."

Like you say keep getting beaten it took me over 6 k to finally realise I'm trying to run before I can even crawl I'm still not profitable after 5 years and probably around 7k down simply because I thought I had a winning edge or knew what I was doing and went mad greedy blew the bank then repeated the process over again
its a crewel thing to learn. them days are long gone for me I just sit back relax and build automation bots and manually trade when I can but I have piss poor discipline so prefer the bots they dont change their mind as often as I do
what I find works when building automation bots is one tick at a time with minimal rules seems to work then build on that if you cant make one tick why go for 20

[goat68]

I think that's the important part - I see people saying they're not full time and they've been doing this for 6 months etc...

As well as Peter, Calvin Coolidge (30th US President) had it right:

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

I agree I am sure persistence and determination are what is needed. But I do question, especially in today's markets compared to 20years ago when it was a lot different and I suggest easier, is it healthy for a person to spend years continually losing with no reward until some magical point some years down the road when they reach the bottom and become profitable? I've heard on these forums of some people losing 1000s over 2-3 years and still not profitable, this can't be healthy?
I've been at this now about 8months, and i've not had any sustained reward, are you saying "keep going and getting beaten, you'll get there in the end?"
I think you've got to "enjoy" it regardless of the fact you may always lose. It's not great enjoyment to continually manually trade, or create bot after bot, and for it to just lose... where's the fun in that?
"You've got to enjoy it not for the winning, but for the taking part."

Like you say keep getting beaten it took me over 6 k to finally realise I'm trying to run before I can even crawl I'm still not profitable after 5 years and probably around 7k down simply because I thought I had a winning edge or knew what I was doing and went mad greedy blew the bank then repeated the process over again
its a crewel thing to learn. them days are long gone for me I just sit back relax and build automation bots and manually trade when I can but I have piss poor discipline so prefer the bots they dont change their mind as often as I do
what I find works when building automation bots is one tick at a time with minimal rules seems to work then build on that if you cant make one tick why go for 20

Thanks for feedback, you're not alone i am sure.

[Trader Pat]

I agree I am sure persistence and determination are what is needed. But I do question, especially in today's markets compared to 20years ago when it was a lot different and I suggest easier, is it healthy for a person to spend years continually losing with no reward until some magical point some years down the road when they reach the bottom and become profitable? I've heard on these forums of some people losing 1000s over 2-3 years and still not profitable, this can't be healthy?
I've been at this now about 8months, and i've not had any sustained reward, are you saying "keep going and getting beaten, you'll get there in the end?"
I think you've got to "enjoy" it regardless of the fact you may always lose. It's not great enjoyment to continually manually trade, or create bot after bot, and for it to just lose... where's the fun in that?
"You've got to enjoy it not for the winning, but for the taking part."

It depends how much time you can afford to commit to it but my opinion is if a person is still losing money after 2 years they should knock it on the head. Most profitable traders start off by losing money but then go through a break even phase before going on to be profitable. The break even phase can be misleading though, it might just mean a persons discipline has improved. If you trade at random by picking a horse and tossing a coin to decide if you're going to back or lay it, and do this a thousand times at the end of it you should be somewhere around break even (minus commission). People can then get stuck in this break even phase for years and never make money and it all comes down to understanding the market.

I think you make an important point Goat, I've said before on the forum that I don't believe in this never ending optimism and encouragement like "you will get there in the end" etc... many don't for all kinds of reasons. When you're losing money consistently its because of a lack of understanding of the market and you're essentially gambling. Depending on the individual that can have an effect on your state of mind and there needs to be a point where that person says enough is enough.

I don't think its necessary to enjoy trading but if its making you miserable its probably time to step away.

[beermonsterman]

I agree I am sure persistence and determination are what is needed. But I do question, especially in today's markets compared to 20years ago when it was a lot different and I suggest easier, is it healthy for a person to spend years continually losing with no reward until some magical point some years down the road when they reach the bottom and become profitable? I've heard on these forums of some people losing 1000s over 2-3 years and still not profitable, this can't be healthy?
I've been at this now about 8months, and i've not had any sustained reward, are you saying "keep going and getting beaten, you'll get there in the end?"
I think you've got to "enjoy" it regardless of the fact you may always lose. It's not great enjoyment to continually manually trade, or create bot after bot, and for it to just lose... where's the fun in that?
"You've got to enjoy it not for the winning, but for the taking part."

Like you say keep getting beaten it took me over 6 k to finally realise I'm trying to run before I can even crawl I'm still not profitable after 5 years and probably around 7k down simply because I thought I had a winning edge or knew what I was doing and went mad greedy blew the bank then repeated the process over again
its a crewel thing to learn. them days are long gone for me I just sit back relax and build automation bots and manually trade when I can but I have piss poor discipline so prefer the bots they dont change their mind as often as I do
what I find works when building automation bots is one tick at a time with minimal rules seems to work then build on that if you cant make one tick why go for 20

Thanks for feedback, you're not alone i am sure.

If anything its a hobby that may turn into a side income but I find most people think its a way to make a living and give up the day job and all that stuff but reality hits most fail and give up but not me I will carry on because I enjoy it if anything else
But get quick rich schemes defiantly do not exist and in this game unless you put a shit load into it not many people will give you the time of day
I personally dont have 1 single trading friend or contact to help me along I dont know if that's how this game is or I just haven't been in the right place at the right time I've followed this forum for years and not wanted to comment for fear of people rejecting me due to lack of experience
That's my sob story lol

Keep going mate 3 years in you may as well carry on you've done the hard work the rest will come together eventually

[jamesg46]

Come on boys... rent a room or start a new thread