Old Edges in Betfair

[Trader724]

Winning. Money won, especially by gambling.
"He went to collect his winnings".

[LeTiss]

Scalping was remarkably effective in the early days, though I choose not to call it that when I started as I saw it more a case of market making. Popping in two orders with a spread. It was Adam Todd who, sort of incorrectly, called that scalping. You didn't need to do much and any old fool could do it. But this was very early on, it soon started to evolve soon afterwards. But you often see talked about in the same terms.

You could earn a very decent living from 'Make Market' strategies back then

The scalpers that failed to adapt to the changing markets, bit the dust

[ODPaul82]

Used to use proform to lay horses with a speed rating of 0 in a handicap chase, laying by liability up to a price of 8s.
Potentially still profitable, no idea. Anyone who uses proform feel free to try it.
Can't remember the exact full setup of it but I imagine I filtered by race class, LTO position, etc

[Mr.Teeny]

The other thing about the “good old days” of trading was that the cost of living was nowhere near what it is now. If you were trading pre 2008 you didn’t need to be doing that well to grind out a living, and could even afford yourself luxuries like a day off now and again!

I’ll be honest, I found it just as much of a struggle back then as I do now. I do better now than I did then, though the money would go so much further in the “good old days”.

[Mr.Teeny]

Scalping was remarkably effective in the early days, though I choose not to call it that when I started as I saw it more a case of market making. Popping in two orders with a spread. It was Adam Todd who, sort of incorrectly, called that scalping. You didn't need to do much and any old fool could do it. But this was very early on, it soon started to evolve soon afterwards. But you often see it talked about in the same terms.

I remember back in the day, when the betfair forum was the place to be, people were furious with this guy for releasing all those videos showing how easy it was.

I think there was a thread called something along the lines of “killing the goose that lays the golden eggs“. I remember reading that thread with amusement, the betfair forum was a funny place in the “good old days”.

[jamesedwards]

Scalping was remarkably effective in the early days, though I choose not to call it that when I started as I saw it more a case of market making. Popping in two orders with a spread. It was Adam Todd who, sort of incorrectly, called that scalping. You didn't need to do much and any old fool could do it. But this was very early on, it soon started to evolve soon afterwards. But you often see it talked about in the same terms.

What changed to make market making less effective? Dwindling liquidity? More price movement?

[ShaunWhite]

Btw beer, my pet trading hate is the phrase 'winning' money. I don't know any trader that has ever 'won' money, they've earned it! My binman doesn't 'win' his wages and neither do I.

What you talking about Shaun ?? Winning Money ?? where have I said that and I will apologise for my insult to you

I don't think you've ever said it, it's just a general pet hate because it undermines the effort. 'Winning' is fun and easy and what you see the Wallys doing who punch the air on the telly adverts for poker. 'Earning' your money is closer to the brutal truth. The only reason I referenced you was because you'd mentioned 'fun' and I thought you were spot on about the fun vs work comment.

[jimibt]

Btw beer, my pet trading hate is the phrase 'winning' money. I don't know any trader that has ever 'won' money, they've earned it! My binman doesn't 'win' his wages and neither do I.

What you talking about Shaun ?? Winning Money ?? where have I said that and I will apologise for my insult to you

I don't think you've ever said it, it's just a general pet hate because it undermines the effort. 'Winning' is fun and easy and what you see the Wallys doing who punch the air on the telly adverts for poker. 'Earning' your money is closer to the brutal truth. The only reason I referenced you was because you'd mentioned 'fun' and I thought you were spot on about the fun vs work comment.

it is *funny* (pun sort of intended) how all pastimes transform once they offer an opportunity to make a living and/or drain your bank (done both ). i actually for a long time combined contract working with doing this as it kept me sharp (programming wise) doing the work, work and kept me interested (enjoyment wise) doing the BF stuff. for me, the key is choice -if you have it, to fashion your week as you please.

yeah -FUN!!

[Derek27]

Winning. Money won, especially by gambling.
"He went to collect his winnings".

I used to get infuriated by idiots who place £1 Yankees, get a 6/4 and even money double returning £5, and then they collect their "winnings"!!

[Emmson]

I had my 1st edge in NBA points total markets, then Canada pulled out (or was pulled out) & then betfair totally changed NBA points markets and that was that. Now I just do game odds.

[Mr.Teeny]

Scalping was remarkably effective in the early days, though I choose not to call it that when I started as I saw it more a case of market making. Popping in two orders with a spread. It was Adam Todd who, sort of incorrectly, called that scalping. You didn't need to do much and any old fool could do it. But this was very early on, it soon started to evolve soon afterwards. But you often see it talked about in the same terms.

I remember back in the day, when the betfair forum was the place to be, people were furious with this guy for releasing all those videos showing how easy it was.

I think there was a thread called something along the lines of “killing the goose that lays the golden eggs“. I remember reading that thread with amusement, the betfair forum was a funny place in the “good old days”.

Thinking about it, it was a long time ago, and I used to spend way too much time reading the betfair forum, so maybe my recollection is fuzzy.

Though I remember , or at least think I do, a poster called aintbrokedontfixit, who later became known as gonebrokecantfixit, posting these videos, showing him trading, and telling everyone he was making loads of money doing it.

My recollection of the videos, and I don’t think they even involved software at the time, think it might have even been on the betfair website, but maybe I’m wrong about that too. Though all he was doing was literally waiting for an order to come in, usually on the favourite, jump in front of it, get matched, then immediately offer the bet back on the other side , and either getting a tick, or scratching and starting again if need be. Then just doing this over and over until the race started.

Apparently it really was that easy back then. And you could make decent money doing so. Can’t say I was doing it though, I was too busy losing money doing something else.

[Derek27]

Scalping was remarkably effective in the early days, though I choose not to call it that when I started as I saw it more a case of market making. Popping in two orders with a spread. It was Adam Todd who, sort of incorrectly, called that scalping. You didn't need to do much and any old fool could do it. But this was very early on, it soon started to evolve soon afterwards. But you often see talked about in the same terms.

You could earn a very decent living from 'Make Market' strategies back then

The scalpers that failed to adapt to the changing markets, bit the dust

I once asked a second-hand furniture dealer how long he's been in the business. Not long was the reply, but he gave me a long, long list of all his previous businesses he had, including fish & chips, scrap metal, selling car parts, etc. Might not look good on a C.V. but I bet he's never been hard up or ever needed to apply for a job.

[Derek27]

The other thing about the “good old days” of trading was that the cost of living was nowhere near what it is now.

Absolutely, it was 20-40% less.

I reckon a lot of traders felt the same way I did when I got the PC email from Betfair - a feeling of achievement/accomplishment that only lasts until next Wednesday!

[Derek27]

Hi all,

This may not be a flyer but I thought it would be really helpful for those in the BA community constantly striving to find an edge if anyone which once had profitable automation shares their old ideas/systems.

Im not expecting anyone to give away anything currently in test or profitable but if there once was something (simple or complex) it will help the newbies try to understand the mindset required when searching for the illusive system/strategy.

We all read the threads discussing how manual trading was like finding money on the floor years ago, but i'd love to know how some people made their profits through automation back when things were different.

Like I say, this thread may not take off but im fairly sure it has potential to be a busy thread for the whole community if people are happy to share their experiences...

I used to make easy money bookmaking big-race antepost markets. I'd lay the entire field to pay out £250 to £500, rinse and repeat. In all the years that I did it, I only suffered two triple-figure losses; when Harbinger fractured his leg and was pulled out of the Juddmont International and when Canford Cliffs was withdrawn from the QEII. Best ever market was Tidal Bay's Tingle Creek Chase. It was a gift from god! The race was a 5-day entry, the market opened the day before entries, people were betting on the 7 or so runners as though they were the only starters. Next day a couple of fancied runners were added to the market so I had instant free bets of whatever I laid. Then, the legendary Mastermind, who would have surely won the race had he taken part, pulled out after I laid him but before his rivals were matched - happy days!

Sadly, the last time I looked at those markets a few years ago they had completely dried up.

[beermonsterman]

Btw beer, my pet trading hate is the phrase 'winning' money. I don't know any trader that has ever 'won' money, they've earned it! My binman doesn't 'win' his wages and neither do I.

What you talking about Shaun ?? Winning Money ?? where have I said that and I will apologise for my insult to you

I don't think you've ever said it, it's just a general pet hate because it undermines the effort. 'Winning' is fun and easy and what you see the Wallys doing who punch the air on the telly adverts for poker. 'Earning' your money is closer to the brutal truth. The only reason I referenced you was because you'd mentioned 'fun' and I thought you were spot on about the fun vs work comment.

I Apoligise to you Shaun I took what you said completely out of context sorry about that .