European Super League

[LeTiss]

I enjoyed listening to Steve Parish on MNF. He said some interesting things

1) He always votes on PL matters as if he was still a Championship chairman, because the chances are Crystal Palace will be back there at some stage

2) There have been numerous clubs throughout history, who could have classified themselves as one of the 'big 6' at any given time....Tottenham are no bigger than Everton and Aston Villa

3) There a number of clubs currently in the football league, who are probably bigger clubs than the other 14 clubs in the PL

[Morbius]

As an add on....there will be a lot of people who won't like what I'm about to say but its the truth and the truth often hurts and hurts badly but it only hurts because its true so just deal with it.

I get sick and tired of hearing fans moaning and complaining about this planned ESL. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is complicit in the formation of it. I skirted the issue in previous posts but fans have stood back and allowed football clubs to basically shaft them hard for years by willfully paying up year on year increasing season ticket prices whilst at the same time being served in many cases utter crap or at best sub-standard (in terms of value) quality. Top clubs don't want knowledgeable fans, they want what Roy Keane described as "prawn sandwich munchers" who will pay good money to watch "football".

The overwhelming majority of fans (99%) don't have a clue about the value being served to them on a football pitch and from the clubs they support. If they did they wouldn't go and they certainly wouldn't come out with utter crap like "its in my blood and its a social event and its my passion or I can't stop" and all of the other pathetic reasons fans quote for justifying rape. Listen....if your brother was nicking your money every week and f****** your wife would you justify it by saying "but he's my brother".

Fans are clueless when it comes to spotting value. I stopped watching PL games at my club 23 years ago. I was a season ticket holder but enough was enough. How did I know this?? Because I know football and I know value when I see it. Fans allowed the clubs to get to be where they are and that peaked the interest of hard nosed mercenary wealthy foreign venture capitalists to come into our game and obtain total control. They had no product to interest them if the fans had stood their ground years ago but like sheep they just carried on allowing the shearing. Does the average fan have any clue what the manufacturing costs are for a club kit???? Its a fiver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fans are lining up at club shops to buy them in droves. If I tried giving someone a £5 note for five £20s they would tell me to do one but disguise it as a "product" with some fancy sales pitch and fans are easy meat.

Then like a tsunami it just feeds itself so fans by their own actions create "false value". Large corporations produce their own products and state their own value to create the illusion of value. This is basic stuff in economics. The foundation of the PL was built on solid values from previous generations and the money out of the pockets of ordinary fans. But when you throw chum into the sea then don't be shocked when sharks come calling. The PL became big and the envy of all football, so much so that an Investment bank became interested......a flipping IB!!!!!! This may and I stress MAY not happen and it MAY even turn out for the best because the future is hard to predict but no fan has the right to complain because they were complicit in the creation of it.

You simply can't have a footballer earning £300k a week without someone somewhere picking up the tab!!! So how do you pay someone that money???? You create fake value and the rate of inflation in footballers salaries has grown exponentially far in excess of normal inflation but yet fans still sing their names and place god like banners on the terraces. Every single player/ex-player and manager and fan has contributed to this and now they have got it. Even if it falls through, they still created it.

[Dallas]

IF it did go ahead I don't think it would be a viable product long term, people will probably tune in to start with but after a few seasons they'd get fed up of watching these teams play each other again and again. It might be sexy to start with but like a family where the men marry their hot cousins, after a few generations the cousins are no longer hot and some will grow humps and extra toes, nobody wants to see that!

It seems to be a short term view the owners are taking just to recoup lost revenue from the pandemic, its clear they aren't concerned with PR, fans etc and if they can bag a few extra million in the next few years they will do regardless of the long term implications for the clubs, and the game.

[Trader Pat]

IF it did go ahead I don't think it would be a viable product long term, people will probably tune in to start with but after a few seasons they'd get fed up of watching these teams play each other again and again. It might be sexy to start with but like a family where the men marry their hot cousins, after a few generations the cousins are no longer hot and some will grow humps and extra toes, nobody wants to see that!

It seems to be a short term view the owners are taking just to recoup lost revenue from the pandemic, its clear they aren't concerned with PR, fans etc and if they can bag a few extra million in the next few years they will do regardless of the long term implications for the clubs, and the game.

That's why UEFA, the FA etc.. need to stand their ground, If the clubs go ahead with it then ban them from everything.

[jamesg46]

As an add on....there will be a lot of people who won't like what I'm about to say but its the truth and the truth often hurts and hurts badly but it only hurts because its true so just deal with it.

I get sick and tired of hearing fans moaning and complaining about this planned ESL. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is complicit in the formation of it. I skirted the issue in previous posts but fans have stood back and allowed football clubs to basically shaft them hard for years by willfully paying up year on year increasing season ticket prices whilst at the same time being served in many cases utter crap or at best sub-standard (in terms of value) quality. Top clubs don't want knowledgeable fans, they want what Roy Keane described as "prawn sandwich munchers" who will pay good money to watch "football".

The overwhelming majority of fans (99%) don't have a clue about the value being served to them on a football pitch and from the clubs they support. If they did they wouldn't go and they certainly wouldn't come out with utter crap like "its in my blood and its a social event and its my passion or I can't stop" and all of the other pathetic reasons fans quote for justifying rape. Listen....if your brother was nicking your money every week and f****** your wife would you justify it by saying "but he's my brother".

Fans are clueless when it comes to spotting value. I stopped watching PL games at my club 23 years ago. I was a season ticket holder but enough was enough. How did I know this?? Because I know football and I know value when I see it. Fans allowed the clubs to get to be where they are and that peaked the interest of hard nosed mercenary wealthy foreign venture capitalists to come into our game and obtain total control. They had no product to interest them if the fans had stood their ground years ago but like sheep they just carried on allowing the shearing. Does the average fan have any clue what the manufacturing costs are for a club kit???? Its a fiver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fans are lining up at club shops to buy them in droves. If I tried giving someone a £5 note for five £20s they would tell me to do one but disguise it as a "product" with some fancy sales pitch and fans are easy meat.

Then like a tsunami it just feeds itself so fans by their own actions create "false value". Large corporations produce their own products and state their own value to create the illusion of value. This is basic stuff in economics. The foundation of the PL was built on solid values from previous generations and the money out of the pockets of ordinary fans. But when you throw chum into the sea then don't be shocked when sharks come calling. The PL became big and the envy of all football, so much so that an Investment bank became interested......a flipping IB!!!!!! This may and I stress MAY not happen and it MAY even turn out for the best because the future is hard to predict but no fan has the right to complain because they were complicit in the creation of it.

You simply can't have a footballer earning £300k a week without someone somewhere picking up the tab!!! So how do you pay someone that money???? You create fake value and the rate of inflation in footballers salaries has grown exponentially far in excess of normal inflation but yet fans still sing their names and place god like banners on the terraces. Every single player/ex-player and manager and fan has contributed to this and now they have got it. Even if it falls through, they still created it.

Might be raw but personally I think what you've said is spot on.

The *majority* of fans & pundits who dislike what is or what could be happening now have enjoyed & or being complicit in the way modern football has been run, right from the very first mutters of Abromavich.

Pundits week in, week out target any one of those "top 6" clubs and maybe more too with lines similar to "they need to spend more" "they need 3 or 4 world class signings to compete", fans on the other hand have been left dreaming of huge stars being signed up to fix their woes. Tell me, what is competitive about that?. Wenger was mocked for the last 4 or 5 years at Arsenal, the majority of fans & pundits on his & the boards back because they wouldn't compete with the other top clubs in terms of spending.

The model for the top clubs has been spend big & if a manager can't make it work within 4 hours he's sacked. It's an instant gratification model & the fans are complicit in it too.

So, maybe if these "top 6" were to move out & the money was sucked out of the pyramid it could actually be a blessing in disguise. Maybe remaining clubs would have to rethink their model & we would see more acadamy focus & it wouldn't be raped like Southamptons was. Then we could see some real competition & the like of Southampton go on & rise to the top with all of those great stars that came through... that afterall gives that young lads dream in the terraces more of a realistic chance of achieving his dream than having to compete with clubs looking for the next 180 million title winner.

[Dallas]

IF it did go ahead I don't think it would be a viable product long term, people will probably tune in to start with but after a few seasons they'd get fed up of watching these teams play each other again and again. It might be sexy to start with but like a family where the men marry their hot cousins, after a few generations the cousins are no longer hot and some will grow humps and extra toes, nobody wants to see that!

It seems to be a short term view the owners are taking just to recoup lost revenue from the pandemic, its clear they aren't concerned with PR, fans etc and if they can bag a few extra million in the next few years they will do regardless of the long term implications for the clubs, and the game.

That's why UEFA, the FA etc.. need to stand their ground, If the clubs go ahead with it then ban them from everything.

That was my first thought and I did wonder why they didn't just say this would happen if they went ahead, but then I heard that Sky and all the other Broadcasters all have a clause in there contacts which states they can pull out if there's a material change to the format/formation of the league or competitions, which then has a knock on effect for clubs all the way down.
A banning of the top 6 would be deemed as a material change.

It appears this is the PL, FA, UEFA etc nuclear option but equally the owners know of the implications above and are willing to call their bluff that they won't risk the catastrophic and irreversible damage it will do to all the other clubs - just to punish those six

[Trader Pat]

That's why UEFA, the FA etc.. need to stand their ground, If the clubs go ahead with it then ban them from everything.

That was my first thought and I did wonder why they didn't just say this would happen if they went ahead, but then I heard that Sky and all the other Broadcasters all have a clause in there contacts which states they can pull out if there's a material change to the format/formation of the league or competitions, which then has a knock on effect for clubs all the way down.
A banning of the top 6 would be deemed as a material change.

It appears this is the PL, FA, UEFA etc nuclear option but equally the owners know of the implications above and are willing to call their bluff that they won't risk the catastrophic and irreversible damage it will do to all the other clubs - just to punish those six

What a mess!

[Dallas]

Reports of one of the English clubs is having emergency internal discussions over pulling out through the huge backlash from fans
No names of which club but think/hope the most likely is Liverpool

[Kai]

Liverpool skipper Jordan Henderson has called an emergency meeting of the Premier League captains to discuss a response to ESL.

[jamesedwards]

Reports of one of the English clubs is having emergency internal discussions over pulling out through the huge backlash from fans
No names of which club but think/hope the most likely is Liverpool

Could be Man City. They were teetering on the edge and only went along at the last minute when they found out there was about to be a "Big 5" UK clubs announcement.

[Kai]

City has sportswashing interests at heart so this fiery backlash wouldn't be at all compatible with their agenda, would go against it, as Gary Neville mentioned last night.

They might score some big points if they oppose it instead.

[Archery1969]

Posted at 1424

BREAKING

The Premier League have released a statement...

The Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.

The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition. The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those shareholders involved to account under its rules.

The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, government, Uefa, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.

The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue. The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.

[jamesedwards]

City has sportswashing interests at heart so this fiery backlash wouldn't be at all compatible with their agenda, would go against it, as Gary Neville mentioned last night.

They might score some big points if they oppose it instead.

Both Chelsea and Man City are the clubs reported to be wavering.

[Kai]

The level of naivety and disillusionment at board level from the American side almost sounds like a ploy to undermine the sport of football, to knock it off its global perch.

Surely time to drop the whataboutism, get on the same page and sort it out.

[Dallas]

I was just thinking about the psychology of this Super league for the players/team and fans

We all see what the last few games of a season look like for many clubs who end up in a position of not being able to qualify for Europe and not be relegated so its little more than a kick about and few matches for pride.

Even though this is meant to be the 'best of the best' in reality most won't have a chance of winning, they can't be relegated so what is there to play for or go and watch?

It would be like the 'meh' final half dozen games of each season for a number of clubs but lasting from beginning to end year in year out with nothing to turn up for but a pay check.
Footballers want to win Trophy's not just turn up for the sake of a cheque each week