European Super League
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Trader Pat
- Posts: 4327
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm
It would essentially be a modern day NASL
jamesg46 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:42 pmMorbius wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:37 pmAs an add on....there will be a lot of people who won't like what I'm about to say but its the truth and the truth often hurts and hurts badly but it only hurts because its true so just deal with it.
I get sick and tired of hearing fans moaning and complaining about this planned ESL. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is complicit in the formation of it. I skirted the issue in previous posts but fans have stood back and allowed football clubs to basically shaft them hard for years by willfully paying up year on year increasing season ticket prices whilst at the same time being served in many cases utter crap or at best sub-standard (in terms of value) quality. Top clubs don't want knowledgeable fans, they want what Roy Keane described as "prawn sandwich munchers" who will pay good money to watch "football".
The overwhelming majority of fans (99%) don't have a clue about the value being served to them on a football pitch and from the clubs they support. If they did they wouldn't go and they certainly wouldn't come out with utter crap like "its in my blood and its a social event and its my passion or I can't stop" and all of the other pathetic reasons fans quote for justifying rape. Listen....if your brother was nicking your money every week and f****** your wife would you justify it by saying "but he's my brother".
Fans are clueless when it comes to spotting value. I stopped watching PL games at my club 23 years ago. I was a season ticket holder but enough was enough. How did I know this?? Because I know football and I know value when I see it. Fans allowed the clubs to get to be where they are and that peaked the interest of hard nosed mercenary wealthy foreign venture capitalists to come into our game and obtain total control. They had no product to interest them if the fans had stood their ground years ago but like sheep they just carried on allowing the shearing. Does the average fan have any clue what the manufacturing costs are for a club kit???? Its a fiver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fans are lining up at club shops to buy them in droves. If I tried giving someone a £5 note for five £20s they would tell me to do one but disguise it as a "product" with some fancy sales pitch and fans are easy meat.
Then like a tsunami it just feeds itself so fans by their own actions create "false value". Large corporations produce their own products and state their own value to create the illusion of value. This is basic stuff in economics. The foundation of the PL was built on solid values from previous generations and the money out of the pockets of ordinary fans. But when you throw chum into the sea then don't be shocked when sharks come calling. The PL became big and the envy of all football, so much so that an Investment bank became interested......a flipping IB!!!!!! This may and I stress MAY not happen and it MAY even turn out for the best because the future is hard to predict but no fan has the right to complain because they were complicit in the creation of it.
You simply can't have a footballer earning £300k a week without someone somewhere picking up the tab!!! So how do you pay someone that money???? You create fake value and the rate of inflation in footballers salaries has grown exponentially far in excess of normal inflation but yet fans still sing their names and place god like banners on the terraces. Every single player/ex-player and manager and fan has contributed to this and now they have got it. Even if it falls through, they still created it.
Might be raw but personally I think what you've said is spot on.
The *majority* of fans & pundits who dislike what is or what could be happening now have enjoyed & or being complicit in the way modern football has been run, right from the very first mutters of Abromavich.
Pundits week in, week out target any one of those "top 6" clubs and maybe more too with lines similar to "they need to spend more" "they need 3 or 4 world class signings to compete", fans on the other hand have been left dreaming of huge stars being signed up to fix their woes. Tell me, what is competitive about that?. Wenger was mocked for the last 4 or 5 years at Arsenal, the majority of fans & pundits on his & the boards back because they wouldn't compete with the other top clubs in terms of spending.
The model for the top clubs has been spend big & if a manager can't make it work within 4 hours he's sacked. It's an instant gratification model & the fans are complicit in it too.
So, maybe if these "top 6" were to move out & the money was sucked out of the pyramid it could actually be a blessing in disguise. Maybe remaining clubs would have to rethink their model & we would see more acadamy focus & it wouldn't be raped like Southamptons was. Then we could see some real competition & the like of Southampton go on & rise to the top with all of those great stars that came through... that afterall gives that young lads dream in the terraces more of a realistic chance of achieving his dream than having to compete with clubs looking for the next 180 million title winner.
Yeah I agree James, I recall someone saying to John Terry years ago in a press conference how the fans paid his wages and Terry replied "Roman Abramovich pays my wages". Nobody in the entire press room said anything or came back at him with a reply. Technically he was right but indirectly its always the fans that pay the wages. Terry needed to be reminded of the words of Matt Busby "Football is nothing without fans". Take away the fans and there is no product but football fans in this country remind me of the saying "understand the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Yes my post was raw and crude but so is legalised rape although in this instance the "victims" were consenting adults. Even if this all falls through, football is rotten. I have spoken with loads of fans and heard loads more say how they wished they had rich foreign owners. This is just total ignorance at what is coming down the line. Arsenal fans are some of the worst. They complain about results year after year but continue to pay exorbitant ticket prices. Everything has an optimal value and yes I accept that value isn't always an easy thing to assess. However in football it is painfully easy to spot bad value.
The laws of physics show conclusive demonstrable proof...."for every action there is an equal opposite reaction". Newtons third law pretty much nails it. We all understand the basic laws of trading on this forum. Be it a season ticket, club replica kit or a bloody pork pie at half time we are trading money and time for something.else. The salaries of the players/managers highlight with brutal clarity the overwhelming bad value the fans receive. They get these salaries because of the money flooding into football at a level never previously known. Be it ticket prices/merchandise/Sky PPV or whatever, they get this money because fans are ignorant of value and choose to do nothing about it. This creates unbelievable leverage because the product then becomes more marketable and leverage compounds. So much so that even Wall Street becomes interested. Stick enough tomato ketchup on a rancid sausage and people don't notice the sausage.
When a human being can earn £400k per week who can barely string a sentence together and who isn't smart enough to even figure out who pays his wages and who in many cases would if it weren't for football be a delinquent or worse in the nick, then THIS IS THE REVERSE VALUE created by clueless fans. Its not unlike bookmakers and how they price up certain markets. England used to be priced at around 8s to win the WC some years ago but that price is a joke except it isn't because why offer the mugs 25/1 when they will take 8s or less. Mugs by their own actions create negative value for themselves and positive value for someone else. Its how financial markets work and football is a financial market.
I'm a poker player and a game theorist. To maximise your earning capability against mugs then you must deviate from "proper poker". You increase inefficiency to capitalise on mistakes that better players wouldn't make. If you play theoretically correct poker then you will still make money but not at the same rate. Its the same principle...fans are clueless and that allows very cold blooded highly intelligent people to design strategies and products to extract the absolute maximum while they keep them coming back......must keep those masses ignorant!!! There was a very famous piece of dialogue recorded between Adolf Hitler and Hermann Goring regarding the optimal ways to manipulate the populace and yes yes I am juxtaposing but the same principle applies, these people are manipulating situations. These events don't happen by accident. These are not silly David Icke style theories but proven economics to anyone who studies it.
The gaming industry works in exactly the same way. People never stop to analyse where house edges at casino games come from. They aren't just thrown together. They are carefully calculated to extract the absolute maximum while creating an illusion of the player doing better than they are and so maintain their business...for life if they can pull it off...this is the classic "gamblers fallacy". This process doesn't stop inside casinos but resides in big business all over the world. Fans set their own prices and their own good/bad value but first they have to recognise the fact and secondly they have to do something about it. Life is hard but business is harder. These owners are barely human, they don't think like you or me. They are cold calculating mercenary money making machines and nothing stands in their way....certainly not gormless fans because that's what they are to them.
I may just dress a turd up and say its worth a hundred quid and then convince more people that there is something very special about this turd. So the more people that want to buy it the others then think "well it must be worth a hundred quid because so and so is paying it and he's pretty smart because he's an accountant" so then the turd actually does begin to assume the value that was created.....is it any wonder
Welcome to Wall Street...leave your money at the door on your way out
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ruthlessimon
- Posts: 2145
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm
The proposed ESL format stinks, but UEFAs new-look Champions League is garbage as well.
Who wants this? -> https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/02 ... introduce/
Who wants this? -> https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/02 ... introduce/
Must confess I'm struggling wiith all this. Are you saying UEFA have suggested a new system that puts even greater fixture pressure on clubs? And thats why the ESL clubs have said 'get stuffed'?ruthlessimon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:02 pmThe proposed ESL format stinks, but UEFAs new-look Champions League is garbage as well.
Who wants this? -> https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/02 ... introduce/
Still googling, btw so might find an answer any minute.
Ok. I see what you mean. Bayern, PSG not happy with UEFA's ideas.
Looks a bit like UEFA are the villains here and Europen clubs are fed up with them, so decided to go it alone. All a bit 'handbags' really. How very football!
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
I agree.ruthlessimon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:02 pmThe proposed ESL format stinks, but UEFAs new-look Champions League is garbage as well.
Guaranteed 10 group games each - how dull and pointless.
Just like the ESL, it's all about maximising revenue and nothing to do with producing the best competition.
The old European Cup format was best and created wonderful sporting stories such as Notts Forest's great triumphs.
"Nottingham Forest have won the European Cup twice despite having played only 20 games in the competition – their trophies-per-game record is one that may never be broken."
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleagu ... tm-forest/
