Anybody like to discuss this?

[Realrocknrolla]

Lets see then. Euler and Dallas will be excluded, obviously but I challenge anybody to make £150 on a £500 account in one day. Prove me wrong. You only need to show the video of the ladder nothing else. By the way this has nothing to do with you needing a large account to make money (I never said you did) it is just about a risk reward type of thing. Your risks will be too big and your reward to small to make £150 over 15 races. Prove me wrong. Its only £10 a race.

I made £150 on the last race at Newbury.

Frank Sinatra’d it!

Sure you did.....show me a screen shot of the race or I will just think you are lying. By the way, I hope you did.

I don’t need to show you my screen shot. And I also ain’t bothered if you think I am lying

I mentioned fundamentals earlier. Do your homework

Makes life so much easier.

[xtrader16]

What? You said £150 from risking £500. That's 30% return. Not even the most legendary bettors are making 30% return on their risk. A £500 _bank_ is different. Bank means fuck all anyway, I could have a 2,000,000 bank and only risk 0.00001% per trade. People really need to start talking about return as a % of turnover, rather thank "bank".

Read what I said, I never said risking £500. I said it should be straight forward for an experienced trader to make £150 a day with a bank of £500. If you're risking £500 to make £150 then thats just a punt and you're not trading.

We're talking trading here over the course of a day, for arguments sake lets say just pre off horse racing alone, that's 20+ races. So you can make a 30% return on your bank over the course of a day, not a 30% return on your risk.

But you said "Anybody who knows what they're doing and is making £150 a day from trading isn't risking anywhere near £500 to make it.".

I can assure you that top traders are risking far more (even per trade), to make even less than 150 from that risk. Anyways, if we are taking bank then you only need to turn over your bank 6 times during the day fully to reasonably expect to make 150, if you're goood.

There is a funamental difference between having a £500 bank and risking £500 when you open a position. To open a £100 Back trade @ 6.0 costs £500 but I doubt your RISK will be more than £25 at 5% max risk - this is just basic risk/trading understanding.

[Trader Pat]

I will challenge anybody to make £150 for 3 consecutive days with a £500 account. It cannot be done. I doubt anybody will prove me wrong.

This won't age well!

Lets see then. Euler and Dallas will be excluded, obviously but I challenge anybody to make £150 on a £500 account in one day. Prove me wrong. You only need to show the video of the ladder nothing else. By the way this has nothing to do with you needing a large account to make money (I never said you did) it is just about a risk reward type of thing. Your risks will be too big and your reward to small to make £150 over 15 races. Prove me wrong. Its only £10 a race.

You only need to show the video of the ladder? Like I said earlier no profitable trader is going to let you look over their shoulder while they trade.

Here's a video of Peter trading, he's using a larger bank than £500 because his max liability in this trade is just over 1k, he finishes with a hedged profit of £150. So if he had a bank of £500 and used it all on this trade he would have made a profit of £75. That's half of your target in one trade. Of course you're not going to get 10 trades like this in a day but with 20+ races a day that should be proof enough thats its possible and pretty routine for most experienced traders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJR6R0 ... ZUDAot_BoD


Its a shame you've gone down the route of "If I cant do it then it can't be done" but you're not the first to say that on the forum and you won't be the last.

[xtrader16]

I made £150 on the last race at Newbury.

Frank Sinatra’d it!

Sure you did.....show me a screen shot of the race or I will just think you are lying. By the way, I hope you did.

I don’t need to show you my screen shot. And I also ain’t bothered if you think I am lying

I mentioned fundamentals earlier. Do your homework

Makes life so much easier.

RealRockandRoller you are full of crap, nothing personal by the way. Anybody can say they made £150 on the last race but if you cant prove it its just noise and it seems you are full of it. Oh by the way I made £250 on the last race...except I didnt.

[Trader Pat]

But you said "Anybody who knows what they're doing and is making £150 a day from trading isn't risking anywhere near £500 to make it.".

I can assure you that top traders are risking far more (even per trade), to make even less than 150 from that risk. Anyways, if we are taking bank then you only need to turn over your bank 6 times during the day fully to reasonably expect to make 150, if you're goood.

Take a look at the video I just posted and answer the question "How much is Peter risking to make that profit?"

If you're answer is £1,024 then you just don't get what I'm saying.

[Realrocknrolla]

Sure you did.....show me a screen shot of the race or I will just think you are lying. By the way, I hope you did.

I don’t need to show you my screen shot. And I also ain’t bothered if you think I am lying

I mentioned fundamentals earlier. Do your homework

Makes life so much easier.

RealRockandRoller you are full of crap, nothing personal by the way. Anybody can say they made £150 on the last race but if you cant prove it its just noise and it seems you are full of it. Oh by the way I made £250 on the last race...except I didnt.

Course i am….

I’ve nothing to prove to you. Nor anybody.

You sound very envious.

[xtrader16]

I have never said it cannot be done, i have said 3-4 time I know it can be done but I wanted somebody to prove it to me. The last thing I want is for people to start attacking each other over misinterpretations. I've laid out a few of my trading metrics and as usual nobody really adds anything about theirs.

TraderPat- he is risking less than £100 depending on where his stop loss will be.

[Euler]

When I first started trading short term it was on financials and I was completely hopeless. Every time I went long the price plunged and every time I went short it rocketed. I was convinced that nobody could make money trading so gave up. I switched to investing instead.

Years later along comes Betfair and suddenly the penny dropped and I figured out what I was doing wrong, not only in terms of strategies but in terms of what I was doing and how I was acting. I've never looked back since and realised that trading is more or less going against human nature and selling volatility. That's the key, but that's also why a lot of people struggle to do it. But plenty do.

I can give you a great example of this afternoon on the Tennis.

Monfils was headed out and when he slipped at the back of the court his opponent plunged into 1.10ish. When I started trading Tennis I would have backed this thinking the match was over, instead I laid it and traded out when Monfils came back into the match, then repeated it a few times as the match closed out.

For £100 risk I made a roughly five fold return. Tomorrow I'll do some more of those and will lose some, but overall I'm pretty sure I'll be up at the end of the week.

I get some really good races, but 90% of what I do is just picking off little opportunities here and there and getting a small average. It's just good, steady trading, nothing more than that.

It's easy to get frustrated, but the moment you do. You mind goes to pieces and so will your trading, you have to detach yourself from that to trade effectively. It's a learned skill.

[Trader Pat]

I have never said it cannot be done, i have said 3-4 time I know it can be done but I wanted somebody to prove it to me. The last thing I want is for people to start attacking each other over misinterpretations. I've laid out a few of my trading metrics and as usual nobody really adds anything about theirs.

That video proves it can be done. Not sure what more you want?

[xtrader16]

I have never said it cannot be done, i have said 3-4 time I know it can be done but I wanted somebody to prove it to me. The last thing I want is for people to start attacking each other over misinterpretations. I've laid out a few of my trading metrics and as usual nobody really adds anything about theirs.

That video proves it can be done. Not sure what more you want?

A one off video proves it was done on that particular race. It doesnt mean that somebody can make £150 on every race. Im not saying, and never have done, that people don't make money trading Horse Racing. My original point was how do they find the consistency to do it 9/10 races and what are the metrics they are using. I know they are never going to share them, why would they but through the forum Im sure we could try to find them ourselves but it seems nobody want to try.

[xtrader16]

I don’t need to show you my screen shot. And I also ain’t bothered if you think I am lying

I mentioned fundamentals earlier. Do your homework

Makes life so much easier.

RealRockandRoller you are full of crap, nothing personal by the way. Anybody can say they made £150 on the last race but if you cant prove it its just noise and it seems you are full of it. Oh by the way I made £250 on the last race...except I didnt.

Course i am….

I’ve nothing to prove to you. Nor anybody.

You sound very envious.

You actually do have something to prove. You came on the forum, claiming to have made "£150 on the last race" but provided no evidence what so ever. Listen, I dont care what you do, good luck to ya.

[xtrader16]

When I first started trading short term it was on financials and I was completely hopeless. Every time I went long the price plunged and every time I went short it rocketed. I was convinced that nobody could make money trading so gave up. I switched to investing instead.

Years later along comes Betfair and suddenly the penny dropped and I figured out what I was doing wrong, not only in terms of strategies but in terms of what I was doing and how I was acting. I've never looked back since and realised that trading is more or less going against human nature and selling volatility. That's the key, but that's also why a lot of people struggle to do it. But plenty do.

I can give you a great example of this afternoon on the Tennis.

Monfils was headed out and when he slipped at the back of the court his opponent plunged into 1.10ish. When I started trading Tennis I would have backed this thinking the match was over, instead I laid it and traded out when Monfils came back into the match, then repeated it a few times as the match closed out.

For £100 risk I made a roughly five fold return. Tomorrow I'll do some more of those and will lose some, but overall I'm pretty sure I'll be up at the end of the week.

I get some really good races, but 90% of what I do is just picking off little opportunities here and there and getting a small average. It's just good, steady trading, nothing more than that.

It's easy to get frustrated, but the moment you do. You mind goes to pieces and so will your trading, you have to detach yourself from that to trade effectively. It's a learned skill.

Good point made by Euler. What sort of strike rate would somebody expect to make in horse racing between max loss and profit. - Say 10 races 5 winners +2% - 2 at Scratch - and 3 losses at 2% ? -- or 8 x 2% win and no losses. You cant win them all of course but what strike rate would a £200 a day professional have.

[Euler]

Believe me, 90% of the battle is with yourself when trading. If you can overcome that, suddenly everything becomes much easier and you get this sense of enlightenment about how the world really works.

[xtrader16]

Believe me, 90% of the battle is with yourself when trading. If you can overcome that, suddenly everything becomes much easier and you get this sense of enlightenment about how the world really works.

I understand how a positive mental approach and an open mind can be this best thing for you buy there are certain fundamentals about how the ladders work that I just can figure out and it is highly frustrating. I think after today I am a little bit closer. We will go again tomorrow.

[Trader Pat]

A one off video proves it was done on that particular race. It doesnt mean that somebody can make £150 on every race. Im not saying, and never have done, that people don't make money trading Horse Racing. My original point was how do they find the consistency to do it 9/10 races and what are the metrics they are using. I know they are never going to share them, why would they but through the forum Im sure we could try to find them ourselves but it seems nobody want to try.

Nobody has said you can make £150 on every race. Every so often a set up like that will come along and you raise your stakes to take full advantage of it but most races aren't so clear cut and you're reducing your stakes because you're not as confident in what you see, they make up the majority of the races you trade. In those you're just trying not to do anything stupid and you're keeping your powder dry until a decent opportunity comes along.