Hi All,
New to this forum, please be gentle. What is an expected ROI, percentage wise for an average winner.
Also, with a daily starting bank what would you count as turnover, the initial trade or the opposite offset bet too?
Hope thats not too confusing.
ROI?
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Hi Marshy, welcome to the forum.
Always remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question.
If you are trading the markets pre-race like most of us on here then your ROI is calculated on your turnover so it includes all of the money you traded. It's very hard to give you a specific ROI to work with because it will depend on your style and efficiency in the markets.
I tend to look for larger moves in a market and some days a £200 lay followed by a £200 back could produce a profit of £20 when greened up. On another day I could end up with £5 green using the same stakes. I am also one of those traders who never really bothers with % amount and I no longer keep records. I have been doing this for years now and I know where my edge lies so I tend to trade using my methods and the amount I win or lose just happens. That is not meant as some flippant comment, I find I trade a lot better by following the methods I have learned over the years and not worrying about my P&L. I also don't believe in financial targets either percentage or total amount because it can lead to incorrect decisions brought upon by pressure to achieve those results.
The increase in bank can also vary a great deal and I would say it could be anything from 5% to 15% according once again to your skill level and trading style. There is a wide variance because the higher the bank/stakes the harder it is to get matched in the market. Some days you simply cannot get enough volume of money through the markets.
I am sorry if these figure seem vague but I am honestly not a great facts and figures man. I am sure some of the other guys on here will offer some better figures.
What is your current experience and skill level within trading?
JG
Always remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question.
If you are trading the markets pre-race like most of us on here then your ROI is calculated on your turnover so it includes all of the money you traded. It's very hard to give you a specific ROI to work with because it will depend on your style and efficiency in the markets.
I tend to look for larger moves in a market and some days a £200 lay followed by a £200 back could produce a profit of £20 when greened up. On another day I could end up with £5 green using the same stakes. I am also one of those traders who never really bothers with % amount and I no longer keep records. I have been doing this for years now and I know where my edge lies so I tend to trade using my methods and the amount I win or lose just happens. That is not meant as some flippant comment, I find I trade a lot better by following the methods I have learned over the years and not worrying about my P&L. I also don't believe in financial targets either percentage or total amount because it can lead to incorrect decisions brought upon by pressure to achieve those results.
The increase in bank can also vary a great deal and I would say it could be anything from 5% to 15% according once again to your skill level and trading style. There is a wide variance because the higher the bank/stakes the harder it is to get matched in the market. Some days you simply cannot get enough volume of money through the markets.
I am sorry if these figure seem vague but I am honestly not a great facts and figures man. I am sure some of the other guys on here will offer some better figures.
What is your current experience and skill level within trading?
JG
A good post JG, its true, when i learned to switch off what i can make, you tend to trade better. I always go for 10 tick swings, 5 tick in price ranges 4.0 or above, but i am the same, as long as i have my stop losses in thats it. It also makes you more disiplined and less stress to hit a target. One of the key points about trading is to use money you will never miss. You will never get rich fast trading but over the long term you should get a good ROI as your skill level go,s upJollyGreen wrote:Hi Marshy, welcome to the forum.
Always remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question.
If you are trading the markets pre-race like most of us on here then your ROI is calculated on your turnover so it includes all of the money you traded. It's very hard to give you a specific ROI to work with because it will depend on your style and efficiency in the markets.
I tend to look for larger moves in a market and some days a £200 lay followed by a £200 back could produce a profit of £20 when greened up. On another day I could end up with £5 green using the same stakes. I am also one of those traders who never really bothers with % amount and I no longer keep records. I have been doing this for years now and I know where my edge lies so I tend to trade using my methods and the amount I win or lose just happens. That is not meant as some flippant comment, I find I trade a lot better by following the methods I have learned over the years and not worrying about my P&L. I also don't believe in financial targets either percentage or total amount because it can lead to incorrect decisions brought upon by pressure to achieve those results.
The increase in bank can also vary a great deal and I would say it could be anything from 5% to 15% according once again to your skill level and trading style. There is a wide variance because the higher the bank/stakes the harder it is to get matched in the market. Some days you simply cannot get enough volume of money through the markets.
I am sorry if these figure seem vague but I am honestly not a great facts and figures man. I am sure some of the other guys on here will offer some better figures.
What is your current experience and skill level within trading?
JG
ROI is less than 1% for purely stats-based trades (trades not based on knowledge of horse racing).
ROI is much higher for selection-based trades where you have knowledge of horse racing. In that case you can get 10-20% ROI.
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Winning isn't so hard, unfortunately, holding on to it is. I keep losing disciple ('going mental' in Jolly Green's terms) and blowing my winnings on trades where there are no clear opportunities. You should only trade where you can see clear opportunities. Unfortunately, keeping disciple has proved very hard for me, thus, this is the reason why I've found it very difficult to get above break-even, even though I've been trading for a year.
ROI is much higher for selection-based trades where you have knowledge of horse racing. In that case you can get 10-20% ROI.
--
Winning isn't so hard, unfortunately, holding on to it is. I keep losing disciple ('going mental' in Jolly Green's terms) and blowing my winnings on trades where there are no clear opportunities. You should only trade where you can see clear opportunities. Unfortunately, keeping disciple has proved very hard for me, thus, this is the reason why I've found it very difficult to get above break-even, even though I've been trading for a year.
IMHO their is no such thing as clear oppotunitys, every trade carrys a risk, it is about your skill level to read the market. Knowing about horse racing i dont think is an edge either otherwise we may aswell all continue conventional betting with the high street bookmaker and get a bigger R.O.I. Where horse race knowledge comes into play is knowing if that horse is likley to steam. I use this method sometimes and let the race go into play. (The only gospel and safe way to trade in play) and then green up to a certain percent if the selection comes into contention, but you have to obtain the trade first, which means your skill level is about reading the market to get that tradeZenyatta wrote:ROI is less than 1% for purely stats-based trades (trades not based on knowledge of horse racing).
ROI is much higher for selection-based trades where you have knowledge of horse racing. In that case you can get 10-20% ROI.
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Winning isn't so hard, unfortunately, holding on to it is. I keep losing disciple ('going mental' in Jolly Green's terms) and blowing my winnings on trades where there are no clear opportunities. You should only trade where you can see clear opportunities.
Sitting on your hands can be one of the most frustrating things about trading! 
But you've identified the problem, which is half of the battle. How are you going to make sure you only trade in future when you get a clear-cut opportunity?
Jeff
But you've identified the problem, which is half of the battle. How are you going to make sure you only trade in future when you get a clear-cut opportunity?
Jeff
Zenyatta wrote: Winning isn't so hard, unfortunately, holding on to it is. I keep losing disciple ('going mental' in Jolly Green's terms) and blowing my winnings on trades where there are no clear opportunities. You should only trade where you can see clear opportunities. Unfortunately, keeping disciple has proved very hard for me, thus, this is the reason why I've found it very difficult to get above break-even, even though I've been trading for a year.
I think Zenyatta's point was that, whilst no trade is guaranteed, sometimes the patterns that say 'This is a good trading opportunity' appear, and sometimes they don't.
I think the hardest thing is to avoid taking action when things look more or less right, but something just doesn't look or feel quite right. It's tempting to think 'This is near enough, I'll go for it!', which in my experience usually results in money being lost!
Jeff
I think the hardest thing is to avoid taking action when things look more or less right, but something just doesn't look or feel quite right. It's tempting to think 'This is near enough, I'll go for it!', which in my experience usually results in money being lost!
Jeff
Alpha322 wrote: IMHO their is no such thing as clear oppotunitys, every trade carrys a risk, it is about your skill level to read the market.