Hi all
Have any of you seen a situation where a place bet rule is triggered within an automation, but the bet is not actually placed?
I'm testing a new automation which only fires under quite a restrictive set of circumstances... but, it does fire sometimes when conditions are right.
The logs clearly show the rule triggering, but no actual bets are attempted as best I can tell. There are no attempted bets showing in the logs, either successful or "entirely unmatched". I'm monitoring Guardian while this is happening and also don't see anything appearing in the "unmatched" window when the rule trigger counter fires.
Rough details:
In-play Lay bet, by liability, 3 triggers allowed, rearm every refresh, streaming, bet to be placed at 3rd best market.
I could understand if there was no money available / bet not matched...esp in-play... but it seems that the bet isn't actually attempted.
1) Have any of you seen this behaviour previously?
2) Is there a "verbose" logging mode available so that I can see more of what's happening behind the scenes?
Cheers!
Guardian rule triggered, but bet not placed
You'd need to post the actual log for anyone to be able to give a definitive answer
If the log says the bet is placed then it will have been placed and sent to Betfair, after that any number of things can happen, Betfair may reject it or it might not even arrive their but there should always be something in the log to say if they've either rejected it or if Bet Angel was unable to get its status back in a timely manor
If the log says the bet is placed then it will have been placed and sent to Betfair, after that any number of things can happen, Betfair may reject it or it might not even arrive their but there should always be something in the log to say if they've either rejected it or if Bet Angel was unable to get its status back in a timely manor
Hi Dallas and thanks for responding.
To be clear, the issue is not that a bet isn't being placed with Betfair... it's that Bet Angel doesn't seem to try to place a bet.
When the problem occurs, I can't see any evidence that, when a bet rule is triggered, that Bet Angel actually tries to place the bet. I mean, it may be trying and failing for some reason, but I can't see evidence anywhere... so I don't know if Bet Angel is malfunctioning or whether there is some other condition that is preventing the bet from being placed. I can't post a log because there's literally nothing in the log showing any betting activity.
In other words, the situation is this:
- Race is in-play
- Conditions are met which trigger a straight lay bet (by liability)... no offset, greening, etc.
- The automation log screen in Guardian shows that the bet rule is triggered.
- No bets show anywhere within Bet Angel / Guardian... when watching live, there is nothing in the Unmatched Bets tab of Guardian, nothing in the Matched Bets tab (obviously), and nothing in the logs. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that a bet was attempted in any way, despite the rule showing as triggered.
Other potentially useful information:
- This is a relatively complex set of rules, taking feed data from TPD and tracking and comparing 7 runners.
- While a rare set of circumstances, it is theoretically possible for 7 rules to fire at the same time, with 3 rearms each. Usually, however, there are maybe 1-2 rules firing.
- From the logs, I can see that my rule set is working exactly as intended, e.g., the race is being monitored appropriately, there are no timing delays, and the triggers are both firing when they should and not firing when they shouldn't.
- I had considered that the complexity may have introduced a processing burden, but because everything tells me the race is being tracked as it should be and the triggers are firing when they should fire, I don't believe that this is likely to be the problem. The only issue seems to be with Bet Angel failing to attempt to place a bet.
- Most troubling, this automation DOES work rarely, but when it works, it is only when one or two triggers are met (and only rarely then). If multiple triggers fire, it fails completely and no bets are placed. This makes me think that there is something to the complexity argument; possibly Bet Angel fails to fire when there are too many triggers.
- I don't seem to have this problem with other really simple automations; Bet Angel is placing bets as expected with those. This leads me back to considering that Bet Angel may be overwhelmed and failing to place a bet when multiple triggers fire in short succession.
- I'm not an expert here by any means, so I accept that there may be factors I don't fully understand. One thought that I had considered is whether the way I'm placing the bet, in conjunction with Bet Angel logic and Betfair betting rules, is causing the bet to be discarded silently. Because I'm placing a lay bet by liability and using third best market price, there could be come condition where if lay odds are massive (1000) and there is no money, the math just doesn't work and the bet is discarded. There could definitely be outliers here, but I don't think that's the primary issue though, as often lay odds are in the 40 to 50 range at trigger and there is still nothing placed.
What I would expect:
- If conditions are not met, rule is not triggered, e.g., trigger count shows 0. What actually happens: This works. If conditions are not met, rule doesn't trigger, e.g., shows 0/3.
- If conditions are met, rule triggers as intended. What actually happens: This works. Rule triggers as expected when conditions are met and trigger count shows positive, e.g., 3/3.
- If rule is triggered, a bet should be attempted and this attempt should show in the logs.
- If bet is matched right away, logs should show bet placed.
- If bet is not matched, logs should show unmatched bet.
- If Betfair rejects bet for some reason, logs should show bet rejected for some reason.
- What actually happens: Nothing. Nothing in logs, nothing in live screen... nothing. No bet is attempted that I can see and there is no log data to support what's happening.
What is needed for resolution:
- Some explanation from the experts here that would explain more about what is happening and where I might be going wrong. Is there a practical upper bound on number of bet triggers firing? Is there some known reason that an unmatched bet won't be placed or show in logs?
- That lacking, I need to know if there is some setting or switch for more verbose logs or possibly some other debug mode where I can see if Bet Angel is actually trying to do something behind the scenes.
Thanks Dallas and thanks all for any contributions here!
Cheers!
PS - I've temporarily built a "debug" automation with a ton of stored values to see if I can put a picture together. I still need help though, as I suspect this won't tell me what I need!
To be clear, the issue is not that a bet isn't being placed with Betfair... it's that Bet Angel doesn't seem to try to place a bet.
When the problem occurs, I can't see any evidence that, when a bet rule is triggered, that Bet Angel actually tries to place the bet. I mean, it may be trying and failing for some reason, but I can't see evidence anywhere... so I don't know if Bet Angel is malfunctioning or whether there is some other condition that is preventing the bet from being placed. I can't post a log because there's literally nothing in the log showing any betting activity.
In other words, the situation is this:
- Race is in-play
- Conditions are met which trigger a straight lay bet (by liability)... no offset, greening, etc.
- The automation log screen in Guardian shows that the bet rule is triggered.
- No bets show anywhere within Bet Angel / Guardian... when watching live, there is nothing in the Unmatched Bets tab of Guardian, nothing in the Matched Bets tab (obviously), and nothing in the logs. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that a bet was attempted in any way, despite the rule showing as triggered.
Other potentially useful information:
- This is a relatively complex set of rules, taking feed data from TPD and tracking and comparing 7 runners.
- While a rare set of circumstances, it is theoretically possible for 7 rules to fire at the same time, with 3 rearms each. Usually, however, there are maybe 1-2 rules firing.
- From the logs, I can see that my rule set is working exactly as intended, e.g., the race is being monitored appropriately, there are no timing delays, and the triggers are both firing when they should and not firing when they shouldn't.
- I had considered that the complexity may have introduced a processing burden, but because everything tells me the race is being tracked as it should be and the triggers are firing when they should fire, I don't believe that this is likely to be the problem. The only issue seems to be with Bet Angel failing to attempt to place a bet.
- Most troubling, this automation DOES work rarely, but when it works, it is only when one or two triggers are met (and only rarely then). If multiple triggers fire, it fails completely and no bets are placed. This makes me think that there is something to the complexity argument; possibly Bet Angel fails to fire when there are too many triggers.
- I don't seem to have this problem with other really simple automations; Bet Angel is placing bets as expected with those. This leads me back to considering that Bet Angel may be overwhelmed and failing to place a bet when multiple triggers fire in short succession.
- I'm not an expert here by any means, so I accept that there may be factors I don't fully understand. One thought that I had considered is whether the way I'm placing the bet, in conjunction with Bet Angel logic and Betfair betting rules, is causing the bet to be discarded silently. Because I'm placing a lay bet by liability and using third best market price, there could be come condition where if lay odds are massive (1000) and there is no money, the math just doesn't work and the bet is discarded. There could definitely be outliers here, but I don't think that's the primary issue though, as often lay odds are in the 40 to 50 range at trigger and there is still nothing placed.
What I would expect:
- If conditions are not met, rule is not triggered, e.g., trigger count shows 0. What actually happens: This works. If conditions are not met, rule doesn't trigger, e.g., shows 0/3.
- If conditions are met, rule triggers as intended. What actually happens: This works. Rule triggers as expected when conditions are met and trigger count shows positive, e.g., 3/3.
- If rule is triggered, a bet should be attempted and this attempt should show in the logs.
- If bet is matched right away, logs should show bet placed.
- If bet is not matched, logs should show unmatched bet.
- If Betfair rejects bet for some reason, logs should show bet rejected for some reason.
- What actually happens: Nothing. Nothing in logs, nothing in live screen... nothing. No bet is attempted that I can see and there is no log data to support what's happening.
What is needed for resolution:
- Some explanation from the experts here that would explain more about what is happening and where I might be going wrong. Is there a practical upper bound on number of bet triggers firing? Is there some known reason that an unmatched bet won't be placed or show in logs?
- That lacking, I need to know if there is some setting or switch for more verbose logs or possibly some other debug mode where I can see if Bet Angel is actually trying to do something behind the scenes.
Thanks Dallas and thanks all for any contributions here!
Cheers!
PS - I've temporarily built a "debug" automation with a ton of stored values to see if I can put a picture together. I still need help though, as I suspect this won't tell me what I need!
After capturing all data I could think of as stored values, I finally had enough information to paint a picture. It appears that the issue is the way I'm placing the bet. Because I had chosen third best market price, if there is no third best market price, the software seemed to treat the runner as having 0 odds. Since zero odds don't make sense, the bet is simply ignored. Since I'm playing at the margins, it was typical for there to be no third best market. I corrected the issue in testing by using fixed odds... it proved the point, but isn't exactly how I want to solve the problem permanently...that's for another day.SomeDude wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:46 pm
- I'm not an expert here by any means, so I accept that there may be factors I don't fully understand. One thought that I had considered is whether the way I'm placing the bet, in conjunction with Bet Angel logic and Betfair betting rules, is causing the bet to be discarded silently. Because I'm placing a lay bet by liability and using third best market price, there could be come condition where if lay odds are massive (1000) and there is no money, the math just doesn't work and the bet is discarded. There could definitely be outliers here, but I don't think that's the primary issue though, as often lay odds are in the 40 to 50 range at trigger and there is still nothing placed.
It would be useful if future versions of Bet Angel output an error code to logs if there is a reason a bet cannot be formulated...even a generic "couldn't formulate bet" code would be better than silence on the matter. Another possible enhancement would be to have the option to use next best market if third doesn't exist (optional, because there may be times you don't want this to happen).
Anyway, I hope anyone reading this finds this information useful if encountering a similar issue.
Cheers!