US Debt Clock
The really scary thing is that President Obama seems to think that more debt is the solution!
Jeff
Jeff
superfrank wrote:http://www.usdebtclock.org/
I don't think tax and spend is the answer - America has already tried to spend its way out of its problems, with dismal results.
But there is something to be said for raising taxes, and using the increased tax revenues solely to pay off some of the debt...
Jeff
But there is something to be said for raising taxes, and using the increased tax revenues solely to pay off some of the debt...
Jeff
payuppal wrote:Another really scary thing is that the Republicans think that tax increases can never be part of the solution.
Wasn't there a balanced budget until the Bush tax cuts?
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superfrank
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'not sure if the budget was even balanced in the 'boom' years.payuppal wrote:Another really scary thing is that the Republicans think that tax increases can never be part of the solution.
Wasn't there a balanced budget until the Bush tax cuts?
The rich in America have so much political power that they have managed to force through tax cuts for themselves despite the massive fiscal problems. The powers that be all have their snouts in the trough and defend the tax cuts and QE (directed through bankers) as stimulus. Meanwhile 15% of the population (45 million people) are on food stamps.
Just to stabilise the debt (and pay the huge interest bill each year) they would have to run budget surpluses that are unprecedented in modern times. It's not gonna happen. Buy gold.
can someone explain to me. all this money is fiat money, it dont exist. just code in computers. if its not real, what is the problem of just switching the computers it exits virtually in.
then no debt, no one owes anyone anything. i dont understand how something that as no intrinsic value, does not exist, matters.
obviously i must be missing something somewhere.
then no debt, no one owes anyone anything. i dont understand how something that as no intrinsic value, does not exist, matters.
obviously i must be missing something somewhere.
Money evolved from barter.
A pound only has value because of the goods and services it can be exchanged for.
Let's say that there are (say) a trillion pounds in existance. The Bank of England could create another trillion pounds ex nihilo (out of nothing) and then using it to buy back their sovereign debt. However, as the amount of money has doubled, the amount you can get in return for each pound will, in theory, halve, as no additional wealth has been created.
But that would be the least of our worries! The financial markets would go into meltdown (and we'd quite possibly take the rest of the world with us!), the pound would plummet, causing massive import-driven inflation, and any future borrowing we wanted would cost a fortune. And when major economies take part in quantative easing, it causes speculators to put money into commodities and equities, adding to inflation.
Jeff
A pound only has value because of the goods and services it can be exchanged for.
Let's say that there are (say) a trillion pounds in existance. The Bank of England could create another trillion pounds ex nihilo (out of nothing) and then using it to buy back their sovereign debt. However, as the amount of money has doubled, the amount you can get in return for each pound will, in theory, halve, as no additional wealth has been created.
But that would be the least of our worries! The financial markets would go into meltdown (and we'd quite possibly take the rest of the world with us!), the pound would plummet, causing massive import-driven inflation, and any future borrowing we wanted would cost a fortune. And when major economies take part in quantative easing, it causes speculators to put money into commodities and equities, adding to inflation.
Jeff
to75ne wrote:can someone explain to me. all this money is fiat money, it dont exist. just code in computers. if its not real, what is the problem of just switching the computers it exits virtually in.
then no debt, no one owes anyone anything. i dont understand how something that as no intrinsic value, does not exist, matters.
obviously i must be missing something somewhere.
still dont get it; if this so called debt is money that exists only in never never land. as far as i am aware there are a couple billion dollor notes in existance, certainly not a trillion, let alone trillions.
then whoever they owe it to cant be missing it cause it dont exist, just as the landscape in a computer game does not exist in reality, you cant go to the landscape in a computer game no matter what, like all this non existant money it dont exist.
what is the problem of just wiping out this so called debt off the computers just as you would a computer game?
its doing no good to the alledged debtors, and its doing no good to whoever alledgedly its owed, i just dont see the point of it.
ps this not a wind up.
then whoever they owe it to cant be missing it cause it dont exist, just as the landscape in a computer game does not exist in reality, you cant go to the landscape in a computer game no matter what, like all this non existant money it dont exist.
what is the problem of just wiping out this so called debt off the computers just as you would a computer game?
its doing no good to the alledged debtors, and its doing no good to whoever alledgedly its owed, i just dont see the point of it.
ps this not a wind up.
The population of the USA is 307 million.to75ne wrote: as far as i am aware there are a couple billion dollor notes in existance, certainly not a trillion, let alone trillions.
Do you think they each only own an average of about $10?
But it does exist, in the same sense as the money in your Betfair account exists!to75ne wrote:then whoever they owe it to cant be missing it cause it dont exist,
Let's say a pension fund buys a billion dollars of US treasury bonds, thinking that they are just about the safest form of investment there is.
If the US effectively says 'Sod you, we're not paying you back!', then there are consequences for pensioners who were relying on Uncle Sam honouring his debts.
To misquite Ghostbusters: 'See this Mars bar? If it were the 2008 banking crisis, America effectively defaulting on its sovereign debt would be the Empire State Building!'
Jeff
There's a school of thought that says that the so-called financial experts you get on TV don't know what they're talking about, so you may be in good company!
Jeff
Jeff
to75ne wrote:this is my first ever foray into the financial section of this forum, i think it will be my last.
just dont get it.
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andyfuller
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Hope you didsuperfrank wrote:The rich in America have so much political power that they have managed to force through tax cuts for themselves despite the massive fiscal problems. The powers that be all have their snouts in the trough and defend the tax cuts and QE (directed through bankers) as stimulus. Meanwhile 15% of the population (45 million people) are on food stamps.
Just to stabilise the debt (and pay the huge interest bill each year) they would have to run budget surpluses that are unprecedented in modern times. It's not gonna happen. Buy gold.
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
not enough! and not much. 'got a shed load of silver though 
Republican House Speaker John Boehner quits debt talks - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14258888
He didn't even return the President's call!
There's a very interesting graph at the bottom of the page, showing the US's sovereign debt ceiling over time.
Jeff
He didn't even return the President's call!
There's a very interesting graph at the bottom of the page, showing the US's sovereign debt ceiling over time.
Jeff