Ukraine Crisis

[jamesg46]

I don’t know how we got to talking about that & I’m not sure other than this comment I’ll bother talking about it either.

I'm sure I speak for many on the forum when I say its unfortunate that you bother speaking about anything at all.

You’re probably correct but unfortunately it’s you has to deal with it.

[Derek27]

You’ll believe anything you Derek. So this is a war of thousands of untrained, ill-equipped and unprepared conscripts against thousands of untrained, ill-equipped, untrained and unprepared conscripts.

A few weeks back we were hearing how Ukraine has armed civilians with 10k rifles and no male of fighting age was allowed to leave, there was the begging for military aid & closing of air space, the talk of western civilians going to fight alongside them. At that very moment we were seeing a 40 mile convoy, very well equipped.

Russia are currently holding probably a little under a quarter, of Ukrainian territory & this has all been achieved, managed & occupied by some I’ll-equipped, unprepared conscripts…

I wouldn’t put anything past any government be it the UK, US
or Russian. I can’t see the Ukraine having the capability of hitting Russian assets but then again we have no idea what sort of Aid and or special operation (elite forces) have made it to Ukraine. It wouldn’t be much of a conspiracy to suggest it was the US either considering Biden had a slip of that old tongue and told the troops in a roundabout fashion that they were going to Ukraine.

We’re all in the hazy conspiracy stage here… it’s my favourite kind of area to be. Conscripts Vs Conscripts what’s all the fuss about

So what exactly are you suggesting I believe without foundation?

Putin clearly doesn't care about the lives of his soldiers. The Ukrainian soldiers including reserves have been trained by western forces and were not lied to about merely going into a training exercise.

I heard a military analyst say that when the US and UK launch an offensive operation they spend weeks thoroughly planning the military and logistical requirements, all the things that can go wrong, etc. There's a lot of debate and arguing. Even lower-ranked officers will argue with the generals and speak their minds. Then it's followed by exhaustive training to make sure each unit knows exactly what it's doing.

Putin, on the other hand, is surrounded by yes men. He tells them what to do without military experience in the field. Can you imagine his staff arguing with him?

Nobody dislikes BJ more than I do, but if you seriously believe he would order tanks to surround London and decimate it, you need more help than Alex.

This Derek is what I’m suggesting you believe because this is what you wrote. “They’re sending thousands of untrained, ill-equipped conscripts to their death”.

That's correct. There is strong evidence to suggest Russian soldiers and conscripts thought they were going into a training exercise. Then they were told it's not war but peacekeeping/special operations. Then they were told to relentlessly shell their civilian brother and sisters. Is that what you call adequate training and preparation?

There are also many pics & vids of Russian hardware breaking down, poor fuel supplies, and Russians are looting homes because they're out of food supplies.

It’s strange how they’ve managed to take and hold about a quarter of Ukraine being ill-equipped, unprepared and untrained.

They were already holding most of that ground. They expected to take the capital in a few days and were held back.

Russia has roughly the same amount of ground combat vehicles as NATO does, I bet Putin was just handing the keys out at the Ukraine border to anyone and everyone because there is absolutely no way he’d use any of his one million active & trained personnel.

I never said he was only using conscripts.

I’m not sure what you’re on about in regards to BJ, tanks & London, I don’t know how we got to talking about that & I’m not sure other than this comment I’ll bother talking about it either.

I said western governments don't shell their own civilians and you replied...

I wouldn’t put anything past any government be it the UK, US
or Russian.

[jamesg46]

So what exactly are you suggesting I believe without foundation?

Putin clearly doesn't care about the lives of his soldiers. The Ukrainian soldiers including reserves have been trained by western forces and were not lied to about merely going into a training exercise.

I heard a military analyst say that when the US and UK launch an offensive operation they spend weeks thoroughly planning the military and logistical requirements, all the things that can go wrong, etc. There's a lot of debate and arguing. Even lower-ranked officers will argue with the generals and speak their minds. Then it's followed by exhaustive training to make sure each unit knows exactly what it's doing.

Putin, on the other hand, is surrounded by yes men. He tells them what to do without military experience in the field. Can you imagine his staff arguing with him?

Nobody dislikes BJ more than I do, but if you seriously believe he would order tanks to surround London and decimate it, you need more help than Alex.

This Derek is what I’m suggesting you believe because this is what you wrote. “They’re sending thousands of untrained, ill-equipped conscripts to their death”.

That's correct. There is strong evidence to suggest Russian soldiers and conscripts thought they were going into a training exercise. Then they were told it's not war but peacekeeping/special operations. Then they were told to relentlessly shell their civilian brother and sisters. Is that what you call adequate training and preparation?

There are also many pics & vids of Russian hardware breaking down, poor fuel supplies, and Russians are looting homes because they're out of food supplies.

It’s strange how they’ve managed to take and hold about a quarter of Ukraine being ill-equipped, unprepared and untrained.

They were already holding most of that ground. They expected to take the capital in a few days and were held back.

Russia has roughly the same amount of ground combat vehicles as NATO does, I bet Putin was just handing the keys out at the Ukraine border to anyone and everyone because there is absolutely no way he’d use any of his one million active & trained personnel.

I never said he was only using conscripts.

I’m not sure what you’re on about in regards to BJ, tanks & London, I don’t know how we got to talking about that & I’m not sure other than this comment I’ll bother talking about it either.

I said western governments don't shell their own civilians and you replied...

I wouldn’t put anything past any government be it the UK, US
or Russian.

Conscription is mandatory for all males aged between 18 & 27 in Russia and is a 12 month draft. I don’t think 1 million active service personnel were conscripted in the past 12 months so I’d have a rough guess that the majority of those soldiers have had a fair amount of military training. Being lied to doesn’t equal untrained & when 200,000 Russian troops got sent to the Ukraine border and were sat there for weeks before the invasion I’m sure they were prepared for some sort of action, especially considering Russia has been at war with Ukraine for 8 years. I mean they’d have to be pretty pissed on that vodka to not even have an inkling, maybe they weren’t watching western media that were shouting invasion from the rooftops for weeks before it happened though.

As for things breaking, I think that’s just part and parcel of using equipment, my toaster broke the other day, the day before it broke it wasn’t some shit piece of equipment.

Id imagine that there are supply issues and good, anything that slows or halts progress is a good thing.

[Derek27]

Conscription is mandatory for all males aged between 18 & 27 in Russia and is a 12 month draft. I don’t think 1 million active service personnel were conscripted in the past 12 months so I’d have a rough guess that the majority of those soldiers have had a fair amount of military training. Being lied to doesn’t equal untrained & when 200,000 Russian troops got sent to the Ukraine border and were sat there for weeks before the invasion I’m sure they were prepared for some sort of action, especially considering Russia has been at war with Ukraine for 8 years. I mean they’d have to be pretty pissed on that vodka to not even have an inkling, maybe they weren’t watching western media that were shouting invasion from the rooftops for weeks before it happened though.

As for things breaking, I think that’s just part and parcel of using equipment, my toaster broke the other day, the day before it broke it wasn’t some shit piece of equipment.

Id imagine that there are supply issues and good, anything that slows or halts progress is a good thing.

Read what I've said before replying James. I never said a million conscripts, I said conscripts!

Being lied to does equal inadequate training and preparation. You can't be prepared for war if you don't know it's going to happen. You're forgetting the mental preparation required for battle. Yes, they were prepared for some sort of action. That sort of action was a training exercise without any risk, they weren't prepared to see their mates get blown to pieces.

You're toaster's not a piece of military equipment. Most militaries have their equipment in top shape and engineers that can get to broken down vehicles quickly.

[jamesg46]

Conscription is mandatory for all males aged between 18 & 27 in Russia and is a 12 month draft. I don’t think 1 million active service personnel were conscripted in the past 12 months so I’d have a rough guess that the majority of those soldiers have had a fair amount of military training. Being lied to doesn’t equal untrained & when 200,000 Russian troops got sent to the Ukraine border and were sat there for weeks before the invasion I’m sure they were prepared for some sort of action, especially considering Russia has been at war with Ukraine for 8 years. I mean they’d have to be pretty pissed on that vodka to not even have an inkling, maybe they weren’t watching western media that were shouting invasion from the rooftops for weeks before it happened though.

As for things breaking, I think that’s just part and parcel of using equipment, my toaster broke the other day, the day before it broke it wasn’t some shit piece of equipment.

Id imagine that there are supply issues and good, anything that slows or halts progress is a good thing.

Read what I've said before replying James. I never said a million conscripts, I said conscripts!

Being lied to does equal inadequate training and preparation. You can't be prepared for war if you don't know it's going to happen. You're forgetting the mental preparation required for battle. Yes, they were prepared for some sort of action. That sort of action was a training exercise without any risk, they weren't prepared to see their mates get blown to pieces.

You're toaster's not a piece of military equipment. Most militaries have their equipment in top shape and engineers that can get to broken down vehicles quickly.

Derek that’s bs. Any member of any military will be mentally prepared for war… militaries do wars. Do you think that any person who joins our military isn’t prepared to go to war? Do they think they’re signing up to go on holidays around the world? I can imagine all our troops must be baffled at their training exercises, they’re probably all looking at each other wondering why they’re preparing for any potential wars. What did you think Putin was going to do, send out mental well-being booklets to his troops? They’re soldiers, it’s what they do.

[Derek27]

Conscription is mandatory for all males aged between 18 & 27 in Russia and is a 12 month draft. I don’t think 1 million active service personnel were conscripted in the past 12 months so I’d have a rough guess that the majority of those soldiers have had a fair amount of military training. Being lied to doesn’t equal untrained & when 200,000 Russian troops got sent to the Ukraine border and were sat there for weeks before the invasion I’m sure they were prepared for some sort of action, especially considering Russia has been at war with Ukraine for 8 years. I mean they’d have to be pretty pissed on that vodka to not even have an inkling, maybe they weren’t watching western media that were shouting invasion from the rooftops for weeks before it happened though.

As for things breaking, I think that’s just part and parcel of using equipment, my toaster broke the other day, the day before it broke it wasn’t some shit piece of equipment.

Id imagine that there are supply issues and good, anything that slows or halts progress is a good thing.

Read what I've said before replying James. I never said a million conscripts, I said conscripts!

Being lied to does equal inadequate training and preparation. You can't be prepared for war if you don't know it's going to happen. You're forgetting the mental preparation required for battle. Yes, they were prepared for some sort of action. That sort of action was a training exercise without any risk, they weren't prepared to see their mates get blown to pieces.

You're toaster's not a piece of military equipment. Most militaries have their equipment in top shape and engineers that can get to broken down vehicles quickly.

Derek that’s bs. Any member of any military will be mentally prepared for war… militaries do wars. Do you think that any person who joins our military isn’t prepared to go to war? Do they think they’re signing up to go on holidays around the world? I can imagine all our troops must be baffled at their training exercises, they’re probably all looking at each other wondering why they’re preparing for any potential wars. What did you think Putin was going to do, send out mental well-being booklets to his troops? They’re soldiers, it’s what they do.

You're the one talking bullshit, just ask someone with military experience. Do you really think they lie on a beach with their partner and family ready for war? You obviously need to be mentally prepared for war. All Putin needed to do is tell them to get ready for war and let them prepare.

[jamesg46]

Read what I've said before replying James. I never said a million conscripts, I said conscripts!

Being lied to does equal inadequate training and preparation. You can't be prepared for war if you don't know it's going to happen. You're forgetting the mental preparation required for battle. Yes, they were prepared for some sort of action. That sort of action was a training exercise without any risk, they weren't prepared to see their mates get blown to pieces.

You're toaster's not a piece of military equipment. Most militaries have their equipment in top shape and engineers that can get to broken down vehicles quickly.

Derek that’s bs. Any member of any military will be mentally prepared for war… militaries do wars. Do you think that any person who joins our military isn’t prepared to go to war? Do they think they’re signing up to go on holidays around the world? I can imagine all our troops must be baffled at their training exercises, they’re probably all looking at each other wondering why they’re preparing for any potential wars. What did you think Putin was going to do, send out mental well-being booklets to his troops? They’re soldiers, it’s what they do.

You're the one talking bullshit, just ask someone with military experience. Do you really think they lie on a beach with their partner and family ready for war? You obviously need to be mentally prepared for war. All Putin needed to do is tell them to get ready for war and let them prepare.

No Derek I don’t think they lie on a beach, I think they’re actively training for any potential war… you know, preparing which is what I’ve been saying. It seems to be you that must think they’re on a beach not preparing.

[Derek27]

No Derek I don’t think they lie on a beach, I think they’re actively training for any potential war… you know, preparing which is what I’ve been saying. It seems to be you that must think they’re on a beach not preparing.

Soldiers do lie on beaches, they're entitled to holidays like the rest of us. What they don't do is have a six-week holiday while the top brass plans a war, and only get told at the last minute to prepare for battle. Firing shells at targets isn't real preparation for war. That's just generic training.

[jamesg46]

No Derek I don’t think they lie on a beach, I think they’re actively training for any potential war… you know, preparing which is what I’ve been saying. It seems to be you that must think they’re on a beach not preparing.

Soldiers do lie on beaches, they're entitled to holidays like the rest of us. What they don't do is have a six-week holiday while the top brass plans a war, and only get told at the last minute to prepare for battle. Firing shells at targets isn't real preparation for war. That's just generic training.

Ok Derek, enjoy your evening… I’ll leave you to it, I’m off out for a beer.

[Kai]

That was the most interesting debate I've seen since the one where that fly landed on Mike Pence's head

[Derek27]

That was the most interesting debate I've seen since the one where that fly landed on Mike Pence's head

That wasn't a debate. It was educating James.

[The Silk Run]

That was the most interesting debate I've seen since the one where that fly landed on Mike Pence's head

I think they both could do with R&R with all these online wargaming spats

[The Silk Run]

No Derek I don’t think they lie on a beach, I think they’re actively training for any potential war… you know, preparing which is what I’ve been saying. It seems to be you that must think they’re on a beach not preparing.

Soldiers do lie on beaches, they're entitled to holidays like the rest of us. What they don't do is have a six-week holiday while the top brass plans a war, and only get told at the last minute to prepare for battle. Firing shells at targets isn't real preparation for war. That's just generic training.

Ok Derek, enjoy your evening… I’ll leave you to it, I’m off out for a beer.

Oh NO

[greenmark]

Soldiers do lie on beaches, they're entitled to holidays like the rest of us. What they don't do is have a six-week holiday while the top brass plans a war, and only get told at the last minute to prepare for battle. Firing shells at targets isn't real preparation for war. That's just generic training.

Ok Derek, enjoy your evening… I’ll leave you to it, I’m off out for a beer.

Oh NO

This is a bit like a 4 millionth of a Ukraine v Russia conflict, pointless and painful to witness. Just a thought, but if both these clever people put forward some positve ideas things might be a whole lot better.

[Trader Pat]

That was the most interesting debate I've seen since the one where that fly landed on Mike Pence's head

That wasn't a debate. It was educating James.

Tune in after midnight for part 2 of 'Educating James' starring Michael Caine as 'Derek' and Julie Walters as 'James'

*Viewer discretion is advised