Well they might be thinking that,
but it's far more likely they just don't want us at all imo,
they are practically a bookie now anyway, so anything we can do they can do themselves and make a hell of a lot more money in the prosess.
It's been coming on for a while and i see there motivations as being quite clear.
Xm killing of all the overround bots and taking it for themselves would be another example of it.
Betfair Premium Charge
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lesblakeman
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:02 pm
What does it matter that winners take money out ? they still provide liquidity , pay commission and 20% PC , driving them away seems counter productive , perhaps I'm not the brightest but this looks like a "where else you gonna go" monopoly situation to me.
Thats just the reason Betfair first gave when they introduced the P.C, it may or may not be true, who knows.
but it is true if someone is taking money out of the pool then betfair need to keep replacing it.
wether it be from new customers or encouraging old ones to deposite more funds.
but it is true if someone is taking money out of the pool then betfair need to keep replacing it.
wether it be from new customers or encouraging old ones to deposite more funds.
I remember when BF were starting to grow 10 years back, they shouted from the rooftops that they don't close winning accounts
Theoretically, that may still be the case, but they are forcing winning account holders to move elsewhere through other means
Such a shame, that a truly brilliant concept disappeared up it's own backside after becoming too successful
Theoretically, that may still be the case, but they are forcing winning account holders to move elsewhere through other means
Such a shame, that a truly brilliant concept disappeared up it's own backside after becoming too successful
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lesblakeman
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:02 pm
Judging by some of commission/PC figures quoted on the Betfair forum thread it will take a lot of new customers to replace the money removed if those guys leave for pastures new.
Interestingly, Betfair has drifted today...
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=B ... ff;source=;
Jeff
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=B ... ff;source=;
Jeff
pt9091 wrote:Time to go short on betfair!
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Surprised you are only at 40% Peter, you must have some pretty good ways of generating commission or had them in the past given that you don't often lose on markets and win an awful lot.Euler wrote:Just arrived in my inbox, 40%!
I am on for 60%
(On quick rough calculations and I am not 100% sure I fully understand the new way it is all calculated).
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
I'd imagine Peter was quoting the original email of 40% rather than checking the terms.betfair.com site Andy. They convieniently left out the 60% off the email.
As soon as you fit the criteria of winning over £250K net and doing that 1000 markets it's all down to your Lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio.
< 5% 60%
5% - 10% 50%
> 10% 40%
Makes it alot harder for people who've never put any effort in to do the PC avoidance stuff in the past to try now as there's a big difference in profits between <5% and >10% , even slipping between bands makes 10% difference.
As soon as you fit the criteria of winning over £250K net and doing that 1000 markets it's all down to your Lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio.
< 5% 60%
5% - 10% 50%
> 10% 40%
Makes it alot harder for people who've never put any effort in to do the PC avoidance stuff in the past to try now as there's a big difference in profits between <5% and >10% , even slipping between bands makes 10% difference.
Quite a risky maneuver by Betfair, but one that I am guessing they will get away with simply because there is truly no viable alternative. Even with a migration en masse to Betdaq, traders can't make money if they are only trading against other professional traders.
And from my dealings with Betdaq, they are simply a bunch of clowns. Just can't see that particular company getting their act together and capitalizing on this. If a viable alternative were to arise, it will have to arise from a new player in the market, but the entry barrier is just massive at this point.
Would be quite interesting though to see exactly what Betfair liquidity would look like if the (profitable) traders were removed from the markets... If it were significant enough to be noticeable, then the lack of liquidity would drive even their average punters to traditional bookmakers instead, and the subsequent lack of liquidity would create a negative spiral that would probably be impossible to contain. In the end, Betfair will probably have their way, but I wonder if they even have an inkling that if this maneuver were to somehow go really wrong, it doesn't just mean the loss of a few customers... but a collapse of the entire enterprise. Surprising that they view the need to expunge professional traders as worth the risk of killing the golden goose entirely.
And from my dealings with Betdaq, they are simply a bunch of clowns. Just can't see that particular company getting their act together and capitalizing on this. If a viable alternative were to arise, it will have to arise from a new player in the market, but the entry barrier is just massive at this point.
Would be quite interesting though to see exactly what Betfair liquidity would look like if the (profitable) traders were removed from the markets... If it were significant enough to be noticeable, then the lack of liquidity would drive even their average punters to traditional bookmakers instead, and the subsequent lack of liquidity would create a negative spiral that would probably be impossible to contain. In the end, Betfair will probably have their way, but I wonder if they even have an inkling that if this maneuver were to somehow go really wrong, it doesn't just mean the loss of a few customers... but a collapse of the entire enterprise. Surprising that they view the need to expunge professional traders as worth the risk of killing the golden goose entirely.
Betdaq's interface leaves much to be desired IMHO.
For example, they could provide state of the art price/volume charts, but instead the graphs look like something from the mid 90s!
And if the site doesn't look slick and professional, it's not going to inspire confidence.
Jeff
For example, they could provide state of the art price/volume charts, but instead the graphs look like something from the mid 90s!
And if the site doesn't look slick and professional, it's not going to inspire confidence.
Jeff
nomadic wrote: And from my dealings with Betdaq, they are simply a bunch of clowns. Just can't see that particular company getting their act together and capitalizing on this.
I agree with this, just posted similar in the other thread, this is why Betdaq hasn't taken over since the P.C was introduced. The losing punters still have no reason not to use BF as they are not effectednomadic wrote:Quite a risky maneuver by Betfair, but one that I am guessing they will get away with simply because there is truly no viable alternative. Even with a migration en masse to Betdaq, traders can't make money if they are only trading against other professional traders.
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
They will be affected if the money dries up. The PC previously mainly hit traders but at 40% they'll catch a lot more players in the net who might not be as apathetic as us traders