Betfair Premium Charge

[steven1976]

Nice detailed post by Andy. I guess there are going to be a lot less people taking the plunge by packing in their jobs to go full time in the future. I guess for most new potential traders they will have to balance work with part time trading.

[CaerMyrddin]

Hey LeTiss, it's a good idea if you can always pick a short priced favourite that actually wins

I'm really worried with my future, like many said we have to think hard on the subject and consider all options.

Something that I always think about this subject is that if Betfair was a bookie they would have to pay their traders a wage, SS, etc, now Betfair actually make a huge revenue from their traders. How smart is this?!

Something like a major strike from all the traders is never going to happen, but that would really hurt them. I'd love to see the punters really betting against each other and the astonishing prices they would get! How would Betfair advertise this?

IMHO we are in a very precarious position now. Our power to fight back is so limited as we are not an 'organized' class that I would only compare us to pensionists or children. Even students can make a lot of noise (as discussed on another thread)!

Edit: something that has occurred to me is that it would be easy for all the software makers to organize and unplugg all the API's software for a day or so. But that's not in our hands...

[Iron]

I'm really worried with my future

Hi Marius

Have you considered financial trading?

I know that there are differences with Betfair trading (although there are lots of similarities too). But IMHO, the psychological qualities required to succeed in one type of trading - patience, discipline, focus, etc - will serve you well in any other style of trading.

Jeff

[CaerMyrddin]

Yes, I have, if I remember it correctly I think we talked about this before? It can only be done if you have a high clearence level (I hope I'm referring to it properly?). It costs you a lot of money unless you are working to a bank or brooker. I'm already in touch with a couple of friends that work at banks tbh.

Edit: Oh, and surely my name isn't Marius

[Iron]

Hi

Firstly, sorry for getting your name wrong! I'm not sure where Marius came from!

Trading using a spread betting company or a broker might cost less than you think, especially if you use a low-spread instrument like EUR/USD. And in the UK at least, spread betting is classed as gambling and is tax exempt. Worth looking into.

Jeff

Yes, I have, if I remember it correctly I think we talked about this before? It can only be done if you have a high clearence level (I hope I'm referring to it properly?). It costs you a lot of money unless you are working to a bank or brooker. I'm already in touch with a couple of friends that work at banks tbh.

Edit: Oh, and surely my name isn't Marius

[mcfc1981]

Markets 51540
Gross PL £ 390,996.75
Commission Generated £ 89,105.72 +
Other Charges £ 0.00 +
Premium Charges (exc. last week) £ 0.00 =
Total Charges £ 89,105.72
Total Charges % 22.79
Max possible Premium Charge £ 0.00

FOR ANDY
not sure what help that is with them topping it up to 40%

thought the previous figs i gave would have been easier to workout.

[Zenyatta]

Andy's link does raise the possibility for the big hitters to survive on Betfair by radically changing their activities... perhaps becoming high-risk punters only...with lots of losing bets. You guys will all have to become good honest punters like me and Jeff to survive,no more of this wussy trading stuff I wonder what effect everybody trying to turn into punters would have on prices?

[LeTiss]

That's an interesting point

I've often wondered how many of BF's major earners are sophisticated traders like PW etc, and how many are serious punters with some kind of staking strategy.

[andyfuller]

The anonymous post about avoiding PC was interesting though. I'd be keen to know if BF start flagging activity like that. Perhaps identifying unusual betting patterns of customers etc

If you can consistently call the winners and the losers which you need to do so as to ensure you win and lose on the correct exchange/bookmaker why bother avoiding the PC. Just bet the selections you have picked out and don't bother trying to avoid it...

If we could all pick short priced winners or any winners surely all we need to do is give up trading and start backing these winners.

[Iron]

Let's say you've established that you have a method of betting that has a long-term edge (which is no mean feat!).

If you're not backing on the exchanges, you're main challenges will be bookies shutting your accounts down and long losing runs (which can make you question your sanity!). Also, just because your system has worked in the past, you can't be sure it will carry on working. If enough people use the method, your edge may become eroded, for example. Or changes in racing may affect your results.

It's for the above reasons that I'm trying to move away from betting and into trading!

Jeff

If we could all pick short priced winners or any winners surely all we need to do is give up trading and start backing these winners.

[andyfuller]

If you're not backing on the exchanges, you're main challenges will be bookies shutting your accounts down

Yes but that doesn't help people trying to avoid the charge. As for bookies shutting you account down, what has Betfair just effectively said. If you win consistently we want 40 to 60% i.e. they are shutting down your account but just not in exact words. It is for that reason you may want to consider moving away from trading and back to betting.

[Iron]

Yes but that doesn't help people trying to avoid the charge.

True, but I thought I'd let people know some of the challenges they'll face before they embark down the long and winding road which is betting for a living...

Jeff

[andyfuller]

Markets 51540
Gross PL £ 390,996.75
Commission Generated £ 89,105.72 +
Other Charges £ 0.00 +
Premium Charges (exc. last week) £ 0.00 =
Total Charges £ 89,105.72
Total Charges % 22.79
Max possible Premium Charge £ 0.00

FOR ANDY
not sure what help that is with them topping it up to 40%

thought the previous figs i gave would have been easier to workout.

Well you didn't do as I asked, you didn't post a screen print, so I doubt this explanation will be used in the future but non the less I will explain it for you.

PC v1 Wants you to pay 20% of your Gross Profit to Betfair as long as you have traded enough markets, think it was 1,000 and your account is in profit. You definitely meet these criteria.

So your Gross Profit is £390,996.75

Your Total Charges are £89,105.72

Which means your Total Charges are 22.79% which is more than 20% so you don't pay any PC on V1.

However, PC V2. says your Total Charges have to be 40% of your Net Profit, you will need to provide your Net Profit figure to work out your % which only Betfair will be able to give you but you are going to be under 40% and as such they will want you to pay extra to bring you up to 40%.

[hgodden]

Can someone please tell me what constitues 'Other Charges' on the PC statement?

[Euler]

I believe it's data usage, transaction and other such items.