uncertainty in the markets can make them choppy. Thats exactly what we have seen today. It upsets their balance. Things that normally happen don;t and people who trade off those suddenly start pushing different things and it leads to more uncertainty. It could be this new PC2 has pushed enough uncertainty into enough peoples minds that the markets are reacting slightly differently than normal. It also could be betfair have some new super powered computer algorithm that knows all our individual next moves and has manipulated the market against us and made money off us but more likely it is something like a combination of uncertainty and a different ratio of traders to punters after the big announcement last week.
edit: although I agree there appears to be some funny business going on. Incidently it isn;t happening on BD FYI!!!!
My imagination?
-
JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
If onlyhgodden wrote:
Maybe 'the powers that be' know you're a shrewdie JollyG and are afraid of taking any of your bets
Why not record a video, stick it on YouTube, and ask Betfair how they account for it?
Jeff
Jeff
JollyGreen wrote: This evening I decided to test the markets by placing small amounts on 5 prices just above and below the main prices. I found that there didn't appear to be real money in the market and the prices would move but my little £30 would sit there above the price amongst £300 with £000s on the opposite side of the book supposedly going to push the price up. The money was never matched, not a single penny it just held its current price which was uncanny!?
Possibly, but it's impossible to be sure what those things were.
For example, the Mad Bomber might have been Betfair, but it could have been a bookie balancing their book, or a high rolling gambler.
Jeff
For example, the Mad Bomber might have been Betfair, but it could have been a bookie balancing their book, or a high rolling gambler.
Jeff
mcfc1981 wrote:i think its betfair,all the things we have seen in the past mad bomber,spoofer,flashing money have all been betfair, they have been testing the water to see what works and what doesnt.
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
ROTFLMAOhgodden wrote:Lol no chance the mad bomber was betfair, even centuar wouldnt throw money away like that
I have to say it has felt like JG describes that sometimes money is being matched when it should be my money but I have felt that for a while now and not just in the last week or so. But I don't keep records like Peter and JG so can only say it feels like it.
Lets just be careful not to jump to any assumptions about the markets and changes and BF and the PC. It is all to easy to convince yourself of something when it isn't happening, that is not to say something isn't a foot though.
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I was just trading inrunning and I noticed an odd thing. I had two orders in to back on the same horse at two different odds.
I got part matched on the lower one leaving some in the system unmatched. Some of the one at the higher odds was then matched and then the rest at the lower odds and then the rest at the higher odds.
Only talking a very small time difference between them but by ordering by matched date it definitely shows what I describe.
Very odd....
Edit: When I say a very small time difference I am talking probably in the milliseconds and not seconds. Only thing I can think of is that the bets were matched on different servers or something like that? Can't say I am too technical when it comes to the BF systems. This issue isn't what JG and others have been discussing I don't feel.
Just thought it odd so thought I would pop it up.
I got part matched on the lower one leaving some in the system unmatched. Some of the one at the higher odds was then matched and then the rest at the lower odds and then the rest at the higher odds.
Only talking a very small time difference between them but by ordering by matched date it definitely shows what I describe.
Very odd....
Edit: When I say a very small time difference I am talking probably in the milliseconds and not seconds. Only thing I can think of is that the bets were matched on different servers or something like that? Can't say I am too technical when it comes to the BF systems. This issue isn't what JG and others have been discussing I don't feel.
Just thought it odd so thought I would pop it up.
Last edited by andyfuller on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
On small orders I have also felt what jollygreen was saying. In the past I didnt really understand what some of you guys were referring to for slower fill rates, but I now see. I guess it wouldn't be very hard for betfair to identify traders placing bets on both sides of the book and allowing real bets to jump the front of queue.
-
JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Andy
You have just saved my sanity because that has happened to me several times this week. At first I thought it was an API issue or perhaps I had made a mistake.
In one race I had taken a view that a horse was a false favourite and I decided to take it on. I watch the race and then try to decide if I should hold on or close out. I placed an order at 9.2 to ensure 80% profit. The race came to an end but my closing order wasn't matched. That wasn't a problem because the horse was well beaten into 4th place. I could not understand why my order wasn't matched and I still can't!
Then I was watching a race and it looked a tight finish was on the cards. I laid the whole field at 1.50 and watched as my orders were filled. However, I only got 2 matched despite the 3 horses trading at 1.01 1.21 and 1.34 How could I not get the 3rd matched when I had offered 1.50?
In a race at Worcester I did the same thing and despite a runner trading at 1.30 I did not get my order of 1.50 filled?
Then today in the close finish at Newmarket I got two matched and like you the lower order was filled then the higher one :s
At least someone else has seen the same thing - although that doesn't explain it!
You have just saved my sanity because that has happened to me several times this week. At first I thought it was an API issue or perhaps I had made a mistake.
In one race I had taken a view that a horse was a false favourite and I decided to take it on. I watch the race and then try to decide if I should hold on or close out. I placed an order at 9.2 to ensure 80% profit. The race came to an end but my closing order wasn't matched. That wasn't a problem because the horse was well beaten into 4th place. I could not understand why my order wasn't matched and I still can't!
Then I was watching a race and it looked a tight finish was on the cards. I laid the whole field at 1.50 and watched as my orders were filled. However, I only got 2 matched despite the 3 horses trading at 1.01 1.21 and 1.34 How could I not get the 3rd matched when I had offered 1.50?
In a race at Worcester I did the same thing and despite a runner trading at 1.30 I did not get my order of 1.50 filled?
Then today in the close finish at Newmarket I got two matched and like you the lower order was filled then the higher one :s
At least someone else has seen the same thing - although that doesn't explain it!
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
The plot thickens.....Jeff will have a field day with this
Something server side perhaps or something to do with Cross Matching we don't understand?
I have thought I had seen it before but this thread has made me pay a bit more attention to my bet matching so got a screen grab this time. Would be good to get a far more detailed time stamp.
Something server side perhaps or something to do with Cross Matching we don't understand?
I have thought I had seen it before but this thread has made me pay a bit more attention to my bet matching so got a screen grab this time. Would be good to get a far more detailed time stamp.
-
steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Pretty scary stuff. Are they breaking laws, trade descriptions etc.... I've never read their terms but this doesn't sound like betting fair anymore. Surely they cant just match at random. I think ill change my mind from yesterday saying ill stay with them and jump ship if they are going to just manipulate the market to profit themselves.
I'm not Fox Mulder!andyfuller wrote:The plot thickens.....Jeff will have a field day with this
But the following (said by Columbo) does describe me to an extent:
I worry. I mean, little things bother me. I'm a worrier. I mean, little insignificant details - I lose my appetite. I can't eat. My wife, she says to me, "you know, you can really be pain."
As I mentioned previously, I'd record a couple of races. That way, when it does happen, you've got evidence. I'm sure that Gibraltar's Gambling Commissioner would be very interested in watching such a video...andyfuller wrote:I have thought I had seen it before but this thread has made me pay a bit more attention to my bet matching so got a screen grab this time. Would be good to get a far more detailed time stamp.
Jeff
As far as Betfair's helpdesk are concerned, the rules of the game are unchanged:
Betfair is a betting exchange and customer will always get the best price available.
Backing odds of 1.5 would always be taken before backing odds of 1.4 because 1.5 is a better price.
I've replied by quoting Dave's message, and asked them if Dave must have been mistaken. I'll let you know what they say...
Jeff
Betfair is a betting exchange and customer will always get the best price available.
Backing odds of 1.5 would always be taken before backing odds of 1.4 because 1.5 is a better price.
I've replied by quoting Dave's message, and asked them if Dave must have been mistaken. I'll let you know what they say...
Jeff