Does anyone else experience performance anxiety manual trading, and have any tips / tricks to overcome it?
I feel riddled with self doubt and cant seem to shake it off! Its getting worse every day.
TIA
How to deal with Performance Anxiety?
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Brovashift
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 am
Hi all,
Does anyone else experience performance anxiety manual trading, and have any tips / tricks to overcome it?
I feel riddled with self doubt and cant seem to shake it off! Its getting worse every day.
TIA
Does anyone else experience performance anxiety manual trading, and have any tips / tricks to overcome it?
I feel riddled with self doubt and cant seem to shake it off! Its getting worse every day.
TIA
Are you long-term profitable at trading?Brovashift wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:37 amHi all,
Does anyone else experience performance anxiety manual trading, and have any tips / tricks to overcome it?
I feel riddled with self doubt and cant seem to shake it off! Its getting worse every day.
TIA
What's causing the performance anxiety? Is it recent results or a lengthy dip in your profits/performance?
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Trader Pat
- Posts: 4327
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm
Brovashift wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:37 amHi all,
Does anyone else experience performance anxiety manual trading, and have any tips / tricks to overcome it?
I feel riddled with self doubt and cant seem to shake it off! Its getting worse every day.
TIA
Reduce your stakes.
You need to be trading with money that you can afford to lose. If a position starts moving against you and you're worried and anxious then you're probably overstaking. In my experience I learned more from letting losing trades play out that bit longer than I ever would have by dumping the position.
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10354
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Same emotions but just in bullet-time. At least manually you can fix mistakes in 5 mins. Auto can be 3months of work which fails, and then 3 months till the next attempt. You don't even have the dubious pleasure of the sports side, it's just an IT job.
It sounds like you're staking too heavy......you have too much to lose
It's like when you bag a new girlfriend, and you envisage a wonderful relationship with her
You want to make sure the sex is good, so she stays around.....the more you worry about it, the worse the sex will invariably be
If you shag a moose in a one-night stand.....where you don't care how long you last or whether she enjoys it, the sex tends to be great
You need to find that level pal.....where you can shag those markets with freedom
That all comes down to financial management
It's like when you bag a new girlfriend, and you envisage a wonderful relationship with her
You want to make sure the sex is good, so she stays around.....the more you worry about it, the worse the sex will invariably be
If you shag a moose in a one-night stand.....where you don't care how long you last or whether she enjoys it, the sex tends to be great
You need to find that level pal.....where you can shag those markets with freedom
That all comes down to financial management
LeTiss wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:35 amIt sounds like you're staking too heavy......you have too much to lose
It's like when you bag a new girlfriend, and you envisage a wonderful relationship with her
You want to make sure the sex is good, so she stays around.....the more you worry about it, the worse the sex will invariably be
If you shag a moose in a one-night stand.....where you don't care how long you last or whether she enjoys it, the sex tends to be great
You need to find that level pal.....where you can shag those markets with freedom
That all comes down to financial management
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Panto Prince
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:35 pm
Ah, one night stands with mooses. Bring back memories of happy days. They were always the best, the only really challenge being to try and ensure your mates didn't find out!
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Brovashift
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 am
LeTiss wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:35 amIt sounds like you're staking too heavy......you have too much to lose
It's like when you bag a new girlfriend, and you envisage a wonderful relationship with her
You want to make sure the sex is good, so she stays around.....the more you worry about it, the worse the sex will invariably be
If you shag a moose in a one-night stand.....where you don't care how long you last or whether she enjoys it, the sex tends to be great
You need to find that level pal.....where you can shag those markets with freedom
That all comes down to financial management
pmsl-
Brovashift
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 am
I wish it was as simple as staking too high, but Ive reduced stakes to £1 and now in Practice mode... but its like Ive got writers block, but traders block.
Ive got 3 note books full of things Ive learnt over the past 12 months, 1 for quick scribbles, 1 main one that is a collection of all the useful scribbles that I need to refer back to from time to time, and 1 I use as more of a psychological journal/trading session planner/expectations etc. to try and remain goal orientated. Looking through my notes its like 'right ok yep, I know what to do', but then when actually entering a trade and managing it, its like my first day looking at a market and my head feels empty. Its not forward looking....
I found out a month or two ago that Im pretty much flat for the year, I think thats when my confidence may have dipped, and has been slowly grinded into the ground from that point onwards. Maybe I just need to take some time out for a month or so.
I studied financials for over 5 years before discovering sports trading and remember reaching a point where I surpassed all the initial fluff (for want of a better word) and was confident enough to develop my own approach to trading, in my own little corner of the market. At that point I likened a market to playing Super Mario Brothers in its most simplest form. The part where you'd have to get Mario to jump on one of those moving platforms in order to progress to the next level. The market is just a culmination of money/prices moving up, down, or sideways, much like one of those platforms, and all you have to do is jump on and jump off without losing a life. Very basic I know, but looking at it like that, uncomplicated, was very mentally freeing lol.
But now its like the more I try to trade the more clouded my thoughts become, to the point I cant remember anything, or nothing is resonating with me.
Ive got 3 note books full of things Ive learnt over the past 12 months, 1 for quick scribbles, 1 main one that is a collection of all the useful scribbles that I need to refer back to from time to time, and 1 I use as more of a psychological journal/trading session planner/expectations etc. to try and remain goal orientated. Looking through my notes its like 'right ok yep, I know what to do', but then when actually entering a trade and managing it, its like my first day looking at a market and my head feels empty. Its not forward looking....
I found out a month or two ago that Im pretty much flat for the year, I think thats when my confidence may have dipped, and has been slowly grinded into the ground from that point onwards. Maybe I just need to take some time out for a month or so.
I studied financials for over 5 years before discovering sports trading and remember reaching a point where I surpassed all the initial fluff (for want of a better word) and was confident enough to develop my own approach to trading, in my own little corner of the market. At that point I likened a market to playing Super Mario Brothers in its most simplest form. The part where you'd have to get Mario to jump on one of those moving platforms in order to progress to the next level. The market is just a culmination of money/prices moving up, down, or sideways, much like one of those platforms, and all you have to do is jump on and jump off without losing a life. Very basic I know, but looking at it like that, uncomplicated, was very mentally freeing lol.
But now its like the more I try to trade the more clouded my thoughts become, to the point I cant remember anything, or nothing is resonating with me.
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Brovashift
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 am
I did noticed something this week with my mind, and that was with BlackJack. I sometimes get email offers for a free £20 BJ chip for wagering £20 on the same game. Im not a big gambler at all but using the basic BJ strategy its usually worth a go.
When I deposit the £20 my mindset is I dont want to lose this 20, or at the very least not lose too much of it. When I win a hand my thought is 'yes, I didnt lose that £1 stake, on to the next one'.
When I compare this thought process to my trading however I dont think like that. When I place a trade I am not thinking 'I dont want to lose my stake', Im thinking 'how much profit can I get out of this trade before it turns on me'. On a thought process scale;
Thinking about not losing >>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about winning, my trading is very much towards the right side of the scale. Which is somewhat concerning.
When I deposit the £20 my mindset is I dont want to lose this 20, or at the very least not lose too much of it. When I win a hand my thought is 'yes, I didnt lose that £1 stake, on to the next one'.
When I compare this thought process to my trading however I dont think like that. When I place a trade I am not thinking 'I dont want to lose my stake', Im thinking 'how much profit can I get out of this trade before it turns on me'. On a thought process scale;
Thinking about not losing >>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about winning, my trading is very much towards the right side of the scale. Which is somewhat concerning.
The Stoic approach to anxiety is excellent, try that perhaps? Stoicism in general is perfect for trading, the art of not giving a fuck, and it's really the only ancient philosophy that actually has practical uses in daily life as well.Brovashift wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:37 amDoes anyone else experience performance anxiety manual trading, and have any tips / tricks to overcome it?
But sorry to hear it, trading without confidence can be hell.
I understand. I was in a similar position 14 years ago, when I started taking this seriously
I'm not suggesting doing this by the way, I'm just giving an honest description of how I turned a corner
Loss aversion is a killer. It affects many traders for differing reasons
Mine was because I was a punter before becoming a trader. I couldn't get my head around accepting a red screen, I couldn't grasp the concept of losing on an event before it had even started. As a punter, I was used to getting a run for my money, even if I ended up losing.
I found my frustration at taking on racing markets was dragging me down
I hate horse racing. I absolutely loathe it, so I was always fighting the market because I was always behind the 8-ball with my knowledge
So, I ditched it and turned to what I knew best - Football
I knew my studying of form and understanding of football markets was as good as anybody, so only traded them. I started to make proper money and that boosted my confidence to dip my toes back into other markets. A lack of confidence in trading is like throwing a lamb into a lions den. Although over confidence can also be fatal
I'm not suggesting doing this by the way, I'm just giving an honest description of how I turned a corner
Loss aversion is a killer. It affects many traders for differing reasons
Mine was because I was a punter before becoming a trader. I couldn't get my head around accepting a red screen, I couldn't grasp the concept of losing on an event before it had even started. As a punter, I was used to getting a run for my money, even if I ended up losing.
I found my frustration at taking on racing markets was dragging me down
I hate horse racing. I absolutely loathe it, so I was always fighting the market because I was always behind the 8-ball with my knowledge
So, I ditched it and turned to what I knew best - Football
I knew my studying of form and understanding of football markets was as good as anybody, so only traded them. I started to make proper money and that boosted my confidence to dip my toes back into other markets. A lack of confidence in trading is like throwing a lamb into a lions den. Although over confidence can also be fatal
Performance related anxiety is something I think most if not all traders experience at varying times over our trading career. In fact I’m surprised this topic isn’t as regular as the martingale topic.
Some of the elite traders probably don’t suffer as much, if at all but that’s probably because they’re at a comfortable place with the biases that make up the foundation of this particular issue (imo).
Loss aversion (already mentioned).
Recency bias
Conformation bias
All three of those are probably having some impact in the relationship between your performance & anxiety. I’d suggest spending some time getting to know how these may be impacting you & how having a better understanding of them can actually have a positive impact on your performance anxiety.
Well done for speaking out, most be either too proud or too ashamed.
Some of the elite traders probably don’t suffer as much, if at all but that’s probably because they’re at a comfortable place with the biases that make up the foundation of this particular issue (imo).
Loss aversion (already mentioned).
Recency bias
Conformation bias
All three of those are probably having some impact in the relationship between your performance & anxiety. I’d suggest spending some time getting to know how these may be impacting you & how having a better understanding of them can actually have a positive impact on your performance anxiety.
Well done for speaking out, most be either too proud or too ashamed.