Hi all,
So having cleverly traded your way into or automated your way into a position of value.
Why green up?
aren't you simply giving some of that value away?
Or is it worth the price to smooth out variance?
Rich
Greening Up.... Whats the point?
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ShaunWhite
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If they're 0EV bets or worse then it comes down to whether the commission difference is worth it.
I've seen the comments about varience before, but if it makes significantly more money then who cares about varience. Do you want to earn a lot in lumps or a little in drips?
It's pretty easy to work out your PL with or without the hedging bets (whether you actually had them or not) so it's something I always check to see if they're making money or giving it away.
I've seen the comments about varience before, but if it makes significantly more money then who cares about varience. Do you want to earn a lot in lumps or a little in drips?
It's pretty easy to work out your PL with or without the hedging bets (whether you actually had them or not) so it's something I always check to see if they're making money or giving it away.
It's just an (optional) risk management strategy that protects your position against market volatility.
Some of the benefits off the top of my head include the ability to recycle stakes instantly after hedging, it beats various variance issues, on need to top off your trading back which could be an issue nowadays, it makes for pretty P&L's to impress both your friends and enemies, getting instant rewards feeds your daily instant gratification needs, makes trading easier by smoothing out the important psychological side of trading etc...
And you're already familiar with the main drawback.
Some of the benefits off the top of my head include the ability to recycle stakes instantly after hedging, it beats various variance issues, on need to top off your trading back which could be an issue nowadays, it makes for pretty P&L's to impress both your friends and enemies, getting instant rewards feeds your daily instant gratification needs, makes trading easier by smoothing out the important psychological side of trading etc...
And you're already familiar with the main drawback.
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ShaunWhite
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- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
There's certainly different priorities as you move from just starting out to pushing the envelope.
The maths part is simple to prove or check so it depends on personality types.
No need for actual maths and calculating stuff I think, he can solve the question on a conceptual basis, I am assuming OP is (eventually) profitable.
Obviously for many auto approaches most of those benefits would largely be irrelevant and you only really care about the bottom line, in which case cheaply hedging away valuable positions would seem foolish.
However if the strategy is to trade the market volatility, which it sounded like to me, then hedging probably makes more sense.
Obviously for many auto approaches most of those benefits would largely be irrelevant and you only really care about the bottom line, in which case cheaply hedging away valuable positions would seem foolish.
However if the strategy is to trade the market volatility, which it sounded like to me, then hedging probably makes more sense.
I made a transition from horse racing punter to trader. In the early days, I combine the two. I'd green if the horse was under value or let the bet run if it was good value. But when keeping on top of form as well as trading became too time-consuming and I gave up betting I became a cold trader. I was just trading prices and didn't know or care about value and green up every time. It also frees up a lot of time, when you're trading a race every 5-10 minutes to just green up and focus your brain power on the next race, especially when time spent considering greening can be not far off a coin flip.
I can see your point so you are trading off a little value to free up yourself to concentrate on the next race. I estimate you loose 2% by greening up but if that is worth it for you then that is a good reason.
I'm not against it. I was experimenting with an automation rule and was considering adding a greening rule. I've decided not to but can see both sides.
I'm not against it. I was experimenting with an automation rule and was considering adding a greening rule. I've decided not to but can see both sides.
You can partially green up by offering on the best reverse price, or into bsp and sometimes save the spreadMorrisman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:50 pmI can see your point so you are trading off a little value to free up yourself to concentrate on the next race. I estimate you loose 2% by greening up but if that is worth it for you then that is a good reason.
I'm not against it. I was experimenting with an automation rule and was considering adding a greening rule. I've decided not to but can see both sides.
Yes you can and that would save some value.
All the smart people in videos..... Peter, Caan etc use clever well researched methods / skills to get into a position of value and then casually click the green up button and give 2+% away.
I'm not critising as I certainly cant do what they do but I did wonder why.
All the smart people in videos..... Peter, Caan etc use clever well researched methods / skills to get into a position of value and then casually click the green up button and give 2+% away.
I'm not critising as I certainly cant do what they do but I did wonder why.
Hedging is part of the trading process, I don't see it as a debate for a lot of pre-off trading styles.
If I made £1500 on a group race and then didn't gain it because the horse lost, I may not get the chance to get a decent return again till the next major meeting. So hedging averages everything out and achieves a net result immediately independent of the result.
That means I can put the money to use immediately.
If you gave me a £1k bank pre-off I could double it in a week. But if I didn't hedge, I couldn't tell you what I would end up with at the the week.
If I made £1500 on a group race and then didn't gain it because the horse lost, I may not get the chance to get a decent return again till the next major meeting. So hedging averages everything out and achieves a net result immediately independent of the result.
That means I can put the money to use immediately.
If you gave me a £1k bank pre-off I could double it in a week. But if I didn't hedge, I couldn't tell you what I would end up with at the the week.
I can see your point of view but its interesting that someone of your knowledge and achievements sees it as clear cut as that.Euler wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:40 pmHedging is part of the trading process, I don't see it as a debate for a lot of pre-off trading styles.
If I made £1500 on a group race and then didn't gain it because the horse lost, I may not get the chance to get a decent return again till the next major meeting. So hedging averages everything out and achieves a net result immediately independent of the result.
That means I can put the money to use immediately.
If you gave me a £1k bank pre-off I could double it in a week. But if I didn't hedge, I couldn't tell you what I would end up with at the the week.
So hedging is the price you pay for short term profit taking and bank roll maintenance.
I think I'm correct in saying that the £1500 you made in the above example would cost you at least £30 (depending on price spreads) to hedge. Thats the price for the other advantages you mention.
Thanks for your insight
These are all valid answers and may well be worth the priceKai wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:00 pmIt's just an (optional) risk management strategy that protects your position against market volatility.
Some of the benefits off the top of my head include the ability to recycle stakes instantly after hedging, it beats various variance issues, on need to top off your trading back which could be an issue nowadays, it makes for pretty P&L's to impress both your friends and enemies, getting instant rewards feeds your daily instant gratification needs, makes trading easier by smoothing out the important psychological side of trading etc...
And you're already familiar with the main drawback.
Never a problem to ask but best to think for yourself, should arrive at a decent conclusion eventually 
Don't know what your strategy is but hedge funds are called hedge funds for a reason.
Hedging is the reason why I went into trading, first time I saw a hedged position on a random video my eyes widened and my mind exploded at the sheer concept of it. The ability to lock in a guaranteed profit before events even start? Best invention since sliced bread. It also pays for that sliced bread! Can't ask for more than that. Well, you can, but you may not get matched The only time I don't hedge my trading position is when an outage occurs. Even then, sometimes I hedged that risk elsewhere.
That being said, value approaches are different, although even with some value betting strategies you maybe want to hedge your risk at some point, either partially or fully.
Don't know what your strategy is but hedge funds are called hedge funds for a reason.
Hedging is the reason why I went into trading, first time I saw a hedged position on a random video my eyes widened and my mind exploded at the sheer concept of it. The ability to lock in a guaranteed profit before events even start? Best invention since sliced bread. It also pays for that sliced bread! Can't ask for more than that. Well, you can, but you may not get matched
The only time I don't hedge my trading position is when an outage occurs. Even then, sometimes I hedged that risk elsewhere.That being said, value approaches are different, although even with some value betting strategies you maybe want to hedge your risk at some point, either partially or fully.
