Smarkets

[mugsgame]

The reason I mentioned it is because it doesn't make sense to me.

If a company who has a genuine ambition to take the market share of a Bluechip stock listed company with a multi billion £ turnover (BF), posts on a forum advertising their platform and hasn't had the decency or business acumen to contact the propitiator of Betfairs' leading API software provider it does not bode well.

I am no businessman ( I watch The Apprentice is that counts), my 1st port of call before I even launched an exchange would be to set up meetings with PW, Russ, Badger and the Geek as well as some lesser known providers and get their input and get them onside. These are powerful players in the big scheme of things. If there is no Api and software there is no exchange (WBX?).

And besides it is just rude....sorry.

Videostar, maybe you should go and knock on the front door my friend.
BTW I am a higher rate PC payer and I am available for consultancy work

[vide0star]

It would be great to integrate with Bet Angel. I've reached out to Peter but haven't heard back.

This industry lacks transparency and I'm trying to fix that by being open and accessible. I posted on the forum after somebody pointed me to it from a FB thread.

I'm happy to duck out if my participation not appropriate.

[Iron]

That was me - Hi Jason.

Whilst no-one wants the forum to be cluttered with ads for useless so-called systems promising untold riches, Smarkets may offer a viable alternative to Betfair at a time when many people here could really do with one. So it didn't occur to me that there would be a problem with Jason posting in the forum (although with hindsight, I should have checked first with Peter).

Jeff

I posted on the forum after somebody pointed me to it from a FB thread.

[Euler]

As there was already interest I don't have a problem with somebody coming on here to answer questions, that's not a problem, it's quite helpful. It was the part of the post that was removed that caused a problem.

I got an email from Jason yesterday afternoon. But as anybody who deals with me will know, I am very busy and can't be driven by my inbox. Especially with all the stuff going on at the moment.

[steven1976]

Goodluck to them I say. I would imagine they are just using betfair API and somehow building in a tiny commission. Its actually something I thought about in my betfair dreams in the past. For me I was thinking more towards Asian countries that are now closed legally for betting but the gambling industry is massive.

[Iron]

For me I was thinking more towards Asian countries that are now closed legally for betting but the gambling industry is massive.

If anyone can crack the exchange market in China, they'd make Betfair look like tiny.

From the number of people of Chinese ethnic origin I see in betting shops, my guess is that betting is extremely popular over there.

Jeff

[andyfuller]

Betdaq have responded to me trying to promote them this week by blocking my account for the weekend!

Can you expand mate? What reason have they given? I really do wonder about that company at times.

They should have this as there 'On Hold' music when you phone them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg#t=0m51s

[andyfuller]

My view on them posting on here for what it is worth, "Not much"

I heard that at the back!

Firstly what happened to Chris Needham?

He used to post for you using the logical Forum User name of 'smarkets'

So why aren't you using that user name any more? Posting under your current name does not differentiate you from any other posters and I certainly wouldn't associate vide0star as part of Smarkets.

Next what happened to the API, you used to have one:

We do have an API and the documentation can be found here: http://smarkets.com/api/documentation/

Also if you were posting back then, which seems to have gone unnoticed by many why wait from November 2010 until now to actually contact Bet Angel. Guessing you didn't contact them then either. Common courtesy goes a long way and as you know first impressions tend to last.

You have been around for a while now so if it were my business I would have touched base with software providers long ago as they could drive a lot of business your way if their customers were looking for an alternative, that way you may have had something in place you could offer us now rather than only touching base now kind of after the best gift your business is likely to have ever be given from a competitor.

So I can see why Peter and his team might not be impressed, sure you can, also I don't know what was in the edited stuff but if it required editing it obviously wasn't suitable.

Peter as we all know is very approachable and all to willing to give some of his busy time and I am sure he would have done the same had you 'reached out' a bit earlier.

So to conclude I am happy to leave it to Peter to make a decision on your posting on here as it is his forum and as such has to think about his business.

I think you need to work on your business relationships if you want to build a lasting relationship.

All the best with your venture and get that API back up and some software or you are pissing in the wind.

[spreadbetting]

Way to go Andy, knock any opposition to betfair and kiss Peter's ass at the same time

[andyfuller]

Way to go Andy, knock any opposition to betfair and kiss Peter's ass at the same time

Lol - think you may have taken my comments in the wrong tone. It is very hard to get that across on a forum. I honestly don't think they could argue with anything I have posted, all fair comment imo.

There are plenty of other ways to get in touch with them as as has been pointed out they are being proactive, they are on FB and Jason has given out his contact email elsewhere.

Just think it is polite to ask permission before you go posting on a businesses forum if you are a business and especially if you could potentially be taking custom away from said company down the line.

[mugsgame]

SB, don't think that's what Andy was doing. We all want a viable alternative to Bet(un)fair, I would love to have a bash at Smarkets.

Andy was saying something similar to me I think.

There are certain etiquette's that need to be respected if you are to taken seriously in business. The point I was trying to make earlier in the thread was a point about ambition and credibility. Betfair is THE big cheese here, no one would disagree with that. Bet Angel is also THE big cheese in what it does. So if a company wanted to seriously attack Betfair's dominance would it not make BASIC business sense to make an appointment (however long it took) and meet with PW?
Sorry kiddo, but firing off an email as almost an after thought to PW doesn't cut it. If this is how SMarkets operates, they are very small potatoes and will just dilute any liquidity from Betfairs' rival exchanges.

I have some questions that need answers before I move my 750k a week liquidity from Betfair (soon to be Betdaq).

[pt9091]

I personally don't see what the big deal is here, Peter himself is writing blog articles talking about competition being good, and that the new PC has as we know opened things up now and competition is desperately needed. So why knock them for trying to reach out to us, seems foolish to ignore them, and as peters business depends on people using his software, it could be a viable revenue channel for him, or if betdaq dont get their finger out, could be the only one!

I would have also liked to see betdaq on the forum?? as well as smarkets, why are betdaq keeping us in the dark about their plans? sure they might be talking to peter, but what good is that to us the end users? where are our updates?

So its rather worrying that smarkets are being publically humiliated on this forum, if I were Jason I would not come back here now after that!



As for betfair I am finished with them, I have withdrew the remains of my money this morning, Im not putting up with any more of their shit, and the more I read about them, the more I get disgusted, their share price is in free fall, ex directors are staring to write blogs about their time their, which does not make them look too attractive, they have clearly never gave a toss about traders even before PC2.

Im sure there are disgruntled employees in betfair towers just waiting to spill the beans on the cross matching, manipulation and bots that they operate to screw all of us over.

The kind of practices they seem to be getting involved in would not be tolerated in the financial services arena. So why should they be here?

You could probably say I was paranoid, I probably am, but when I am paranoid I am usually right, hopefully maybe get a wikileaks on them soon!!

Again as for smarkets posting in here, I really dont see the problem, I am not in the lick peters arse brigade here either, it cheeses me off every time I log in here and see it, along with peter being peeved at smarkets posting in here at the same time when he's blogging and posting encouraging competition, then when someone takes the lead they get crucified for doing so, anyway enough said.

Half my money is going to betdaq and half to smarkets when they get some software and the API sorted,

I would rather not make money and go back to driving a cab than deal with betfair, to me they are no better than the news of the world, and they could end up the same way, so it makes sense to take my money out of a sinking ship, where I am not welcome in the first place, just to clarify I do not qualify for PC2! But I have enough vision, ethics and morals to see the light.

Sorry for being blunt, but I am sure there are others who feel the same!

[mugsgame]

So its rather worrying that smarkets are being publically humiliated on this forum, if I were Jason I would not come back here now after that!

PT, No one is trying to humiliate anyone. I know ALL of us welcome a new player into the arena, and the sooner I can dump BF the better.

I think some of you need to get a grip and re read some of the posts.
I am talking about BASIC business etiquette here. That's all.
Just because someone comes along at a time when we are vulnerable and receptive to change does not mean they are all of a sudden better.

peters business depends on people using his software, it could be a viable revenue channel for him, or if betdaq dont get their finger out, could be the only one!

As you correctly point out Software providers need exchanges - and visa versa. Can you not grasp what I am saying? Would you had not made contact with PW BEFORE you even put £1 into any development of software or infrastructure of you exchange? I would have, but then again I have spent 8 years on the exchange and made my living for 6 of those years. So I probably understand what is required to succeed and what customers need from exchanges and software. It is blatantly obvious Smarkets do not. They either have no clue, or are arrogant enough to think they know it all. Both worry me.

To just turn up out of nowhere and say "Hi guys - we have this great product come and see" is a little amateur. As we are talking about billion £ business's here I don't get it, I really don't.

I wish SMarkets all the best, I really do. I would really welcome a reply from Jason to address what I have said. There may well be a reason why this hasn't happened. I just want to understand why.

[vide0star]

First of all, I apologise that I've obviously over-stepped some boundaries here. I will try to bring things in line and I'd like respond to some of the questions.

Firstly what happened to Chris Needham? He used to post for you using the logical Forum User name of 'smarkets'

Chris was an intern and now has a job with another firm. In retrospect I should have used the smarkets username. Vide0star is my internet username. My real name is Jason Trost and I'm the CEO and co-founder of Smarkets.

Next what happened to the API, you used to have one

Not very many people used it and it needed a tech design overhaul to handle hundreds if not thousands of price updates per second. So we pulled the old one and we're alpha testing the new one now.

(Paraphrase)Why have I waited this long to contact BA/Peter?

Building an exchange technologically is extremely complicated that very few people in the world have the skills to do. Then, when the tech is in workable shape, getting the right mix of customers onto the platform is a very complicated exercise as well. The short answer why we haven't reached out is that we weren't ready. We're still not ready as you guys see we have no third party software available or a public API. However, I reached out now because a lot of you guys are angry about the Premium Charge (rightly so), and wanted to inform the community that there is a company that is creating a viable alternative. From where I've been watching, Betdaq is not in a position to become the new leader of exchanges, Betfair is on the way out and has burned a lot of bridges.

Just think it is polite to ask permission before you go posting on a businesses forum if you are a business and especially if you could potentially be taking custom away from said company down the line.

That is a fair comment and I should have asked for permission before posting.

Would you had not made contact with PW BEFORE you even put £1 into any development of software or infrastructure of you exchange?

PW is certainly one of the leaders in the industry. The BA blog is one of my favourites, and I've watched most of the Bet Angel tutorial videos. We use Bet Angel at work to watch how races trade. I've always planned to speak with him and help create a bridge for BA customers to connect to Smarkets. I have waited to get in touch because strategically I was interested in building a base of casual punters before building a community of pro punters. The PC issue has sped things up a little bit.

[mugsgame]

Jason,
Thanks for clearing up those points.