Yearly result from Betfair Trading : Poll

[stueytrader]

I think there is too big a gap between 'broke even; and 'won over £10k'.

But maybe that's just me as I'm somewhere right in between that and I invested many many hundreds of hours to achieve a few grand. More fool me I guess, though for me it is a principle of being profitable long term rather than relying on BF as an income stream, unlike many other regulars on here, I'm sure.

CS

That's the point I was making but there's nothing wrong with spending hundreds of hours making a grand if you enjoy what you're doing. Twenty years ago when I was betting with street bookies I made about £80 in a year but at the end of the day I spent the whole year enjoying watching horse racing.

Indeed both points above - in fact, I'm sure we can probably all remember back to our younger days when we would spend whole years betting on racing or sports, enjoy it greatly, in order to record a significant loss overall! Not that spending money should be a good goal as we move on in our lives and trading of course!

I think the above poll is only really relevant to full timers and those depending on the earnings though - personally, I've had a great year, but I don't depend on my earnings from trading. I prefer it that way - lot less pressure. I also think it personally helps me to have solid wider finance as a basis. Ironically, when I don't need to earn from trading I earn much more successfully in trading. Many years in my past were the opposite!

[megarain]

Point of interest :

For the members winning over 300k, that equates to an hourly rate of £80, if u assess they work 10 hrs a day, 365 days a year.

The amount of (free) help provided on this board is pretty spectacular.

[Archangel]

Why?

Best Regards.

Why?
Because I think it must be quite difficult to trade full time and make it pay in the long run. Not just the financial side of things but the emotional and 'brain damage' of knowing you could lose your edge, or your account, and its all gone overnight. I know I couldnt do it without the comfort of having a job that pays the bills and allows me to trade part time. But thats just me

[stueytrader]

Why?

Best Regards.

Why?
Because I think it must be quite difficult to trade full time and make it pay in the long run. Not just the financial side of things but the emotional and 'brain damage' of knowing you could lose your edge, or your account, and its all gone overnight. I know I couldnt do it without the comfort of having a job that pays the bills and allows me to trade part time. But thats just me

Exactly how I see it, as my above post too.

[Euler]

Why?
Because I think it must be quite difficult to trade full time and make it pay in the long run. Not just the financial side of things but the emotional and 'brain damage' of knowing you could lose your edge, or your account, and its all gone overnight. I know I couldnt do it without the comfort of having a job that pays the bills and allows me to trade part time. But thats just me

I know there is an element of hindsight bias, but within about 18 months of going full time I realised there was no way I was ever going back to a normal job. Whatever happened.

[Archangel]

I know there is an element of hindsight bias, but within about 18 months of going full time I realised there was no way I was ever going back to a normal job. Whatever happened.

I dont doubt that. But you have built a business also which I imagine is part of that

[ShaunWhite]

the emotional and 'brain damage' of knowing you could lose your edge.

Strategy fade is almost inevitable, a trader's edge is knowing how to find edges.

[Euler]

I know there is an element of hindsight bias, but within about 18 months of going full time I realised there was no way I was ever going back to a normal job. Whatever happened.

I dont doubt that. But you have built a business also which I imagine is part of that

I didn't have that when I made that decision. I went full time before Bet Angel was born, Bet Angel was created as a way of expanding my edge and capabilities after I went full time. I'd already decided at that point never to return to a normal job whatever happened.

It was more that I found so many opportunities once I'd thrown off the shackles.

[greenmark]

I know there is an element of hindsight bias, but within about 18 months of going full time I realised there was no way I was ever going back to a normal job. Whatever happened.

I dont doubt that. But you have built a business also which I imagine is part of that

I didn't have that when I made that decision. I went full time before Bet Angel was born, Bet Angel was created as a way of expanding my edge and capabilities after I went full time. I'd already decided at that point never to return to a normal job whatever happened.

It was more that I found so many opportunities once I'd thrown off the shackles.

"shackles" for me is a synonym for bosses. The best manager I had told me "there is noone else available, the success of this project is down to you". That was liberating. My thinking was uncluttered (after I'd stopped crapping myself) and I felt 10 foot tall after we'd fnished. But, streuth, 7am-7pm days for weeks on end with no overtime pay stretches your determination.

[stueytrader]

I dont doubt that. But you have built a business also which I imagine is part of that

I didn't have that when I made that decision. I went full time before Bet Angel was born, Bet Angel was created as a way of expanding my edge and capabilities after I went full time. I'd already decided at that point never to return to a normal job whatever happened.

It was more that I found so many opportunities once I'd thrown off the shackles.

"shackles" for me is a synonym for bosses. The best manager I had told me "there is noone else available, the success of this project is down to you". That was liberating. My thinking was uncluttered (after I'd stopped crapping myself) and I felt 10 foot tall after we'd fnished. But, streuth, 7am-7pm days for weeks on end with no overtime pay stretches your determination.

It works both ways IMO - income from trading makes the 'paid employment' a bit less stressful. Nice to know you have less reliance on it than the masses of employees do.
The other way is that having a guaranteed pay every month even if you mess up the trading, is a great booster to confidence - no more scared money trading.
So, I guess I'd summarise, I have partly escaped the shackles, enough not to stress about it too much at least.

[megarain]

It's quite possible mindset coaching will become a thing for sports traders in the future.

I can certainly relate to the 'umbrella' of working for a company, thou the enjoyment thereof was always negated by the huge tax chunk they took each month.

The mental state of a trader can be pretty delicate. I could never get the hang of trading positions for sports funds, which is a definite negative
to my earning potential. Thou earning money is only part of the equation. You have to be happy doing it.

[Euler]

I could never get the hang of trading positions for sports funds, which is a definite negative
to my earning potential. Thou earning money is only part of the equation. You have to be happy doing it.

Very early in my career I almost traded for a syndicate. I've seen how it changes what you do, so I declined. I always feel you make far better decisions when you live and die by your own decisions. But when you do it for somebody else, you are half thinking about what you will say if you fail.

It's a general flaw with the world itself. It's better to fail conventional than to succeed unconventionally.

[stueytrader]

I could never get the hang of trading positions for sports funds, which is a definite negative
to my earning potential. Thou earning money is only part of the equation. You have to be happy doing it.

Very early in my career I almost traded for a syndicate. I've seen how it changes what you do, so I declined. I always feel you may far better decisions when you live and die by your own decisions. But when you do it for somebody else, you are half thinking about what you will say if you fail.

It's a general flaw with the world itself. It's better to fail conventional than to succeed unconventionally.

Some great thoughts there Peter - funny how activity like trading/betting can reflect the wider world sometimes. Having lived through both the effects of my own trading life, and the wider world, I can certainly say that the world of trading reflects decisions everyone makes in their lives, often high profile influential people at that. The biggest group of 'gamblers' in my view are often politicians and people who control the power in the world. But they are often not seen as such, hiding behind pretend occupations and lives instead. We reflect a small group of people in our reality, but a far wider group in our actions and choices.

[Kai]

Why?

Best Regards.

Why?
Because I think it must be quite difficult to trade full time and make it pay in the long run. Not just the financial side of things but the emotional and 'brain damage' of knowing you could lose your edge, or your account, and its all gone overnight. I know I couldnt do it without the comfort of having a job that pays the bills and allows me to trade part time. But thats just me

Idk, life has plenty of sources of stress already so not sure trading adds anything new there.

But funny how trading can completely change your outlook, and almost shatter the fabric of reality after which the world can feel a bit silly. Sometimes you can't help but feel like an outcast living on the fringes of society, while sometimes you feel so superior to an average employee out there that your head doesn't fit through the front door.

I suppose what I'm saying is that the old cliche "it's not for everyone" is very true. When embracing uncertainty a genuine leap of faith is very much needed, in your own ability first and foremost!

But yeah, that being said, outta-the-box thinkers should feel at home, it's one surefire way of making life a bit more interesting

[stueytrader]

Why?

Best Regards.

Why?
Because I think it must be quite difficult to trade full time and make it pay in the long run. Not just the financial side of things but the emotional and 'brain damage' of knowing you could lose your edge, or your account, and its all gone overnight. I know I couldnt do it without the comfort of having a job that pays the bills and allows me to trade part time. But thats just me

Idk, life has plenty of sources of stress already so not sure trading adds anything new there.

But funny how trading can completely change your outlook, and almost shatter the fabric of reality after which the world can feel a bit silly. Sometimes you can't help but feel like an outcast living on the fringes of society, while sometimes you feel so superior to an average employee out there that your head doesn't fit through the front door.

I suppose what I'm saying is that the old cliche "it's not for everyone" is very true. When embracing uncertainty a genuine leap of faith is very much needed, in your own ability first and foremost!

But yeah, that being said, outta-the-box thinkers should feel at home, it's one surefire way of making life a bit more interesting

It's very true that trading and uncertain income is not the only stress in life. You realise that whenever you feel comfortable financially - it's the 'heck, this was supposed to be all I needed, but it isn't!' moments of realisation. Suddenly other stuff, relationships, health, ability to do or achieve other goals, etc remind you they also still matter in life...

But, I think the issue is that trading alone as 'employ' brings it's own very specific type of stress. So, it's about choosing which types of stress in life you can live with, or cannot live with. Personally I've only once very breifly had to rely solely on trading money - I didn't succeed at that time, it was too much for me. But, I'm sure that wouldn't be the same for everyone - we are made differently and circumstances are different too.

I totally agree about trading being able to change your world view though - it has done that for me, even though I am not a full-timer just by giving me something outside the daily employment grind of life!