Is betfair dead?

[Cardano]

Me. And many many others.

Well in that case you are a marked man

Step back and think a minute or two... don't let your immediate bias come to a given conclusion.

Ok, I've stepped back and thought for a minute or two - a successful bot doesn't just have to exploit the inefficiencies of a market

[ShaunWhite]

If you placed 100 bets in a single second or place bets constantly 24/7 you obviously don't do it manually.

Of course - but who's placing 100 bets/sec or constantly 24/7 ( whatever that means ) on BF

Me. And many many others.

40,000 plus a day. And as T724 says that's not uncommon.

Auto and manual traders tend to occupy different spaces as far as I can see. Auto for the quant stuff and manual for the subtle subjective things like a tennis players demeanour or a defender warming up, or a horse swishing it's tail. Auto is very much about averages (hence needing to place 000s of bets a day.) and is pretty hopeless at 'seeing' these outliers where a manual trader would clean up.

[Cardano]

Of course - but who's placing 100 bets/sec or constantly 24/7 ( whatever that means ) on BF

Me. And many many others.

40,000 plus a day. And as T724 says that's not uncommon.

Auto and manual traders tend to occupy different spaces as far as I can see. Auto for the quant stuff and manual for the subtle subjective things like a tennis players demeanour or a defender warming up, or a horse swishing it's tail. Auto is very much about averages (hence needing to place 000s of bets a day.) and is pretty hopeless at 'seeing' these outliers where a manual trader would clean up.

Of course - but who's placing 100 bets/sec or constantly 24/7 ( whatever that means ) on BF

So what is the max number of bets you are placing /sec or constantly 24/7

[numberzero]

Unless things radically change in a smarter way I wouldn't be surprised to see bots banned in one way or another in addition to profitable accounts closed.

if that happens it will be one of the best days for me. Minus the main competitor in the markets. Because few people know how to trade manually like me, it was noticeable in the old markets.

Unfortunately, they will not dare to do this, because in the current realities, the markets will be left without money, and the odds will be with huge spreads like 1.09-1.1-1.09 in friendly game

[numberzero]

The automatic bot that fills all markets trades according to the same principle. You can check this on low liquidity matches in-play where there is no traders money. At the beginning of the game, the odds are random and then after 10-20 sec the bot sets bets according to bookmakers odds. This is on all games now, and this is the bot of betfair
They stubbornly do not want the markets to look lifeless, and on the one hand they are trying to prolong their agony by creating the illusion of trading, and on the other hand, they will not let such people like me make money on free market

[Cardano]

Unless things radically change in a smarter way I wouldn't be surprised to see bots banned in one way or another in addition to profitable accounts closed.

if that happens it will be one of the best days for me. Minus the main competitor in the markets. Because few people know how to trade manually like me, it was noticeable in the old markets.

Unfortunately, they will not dare to do this, because in the current realities, the markets will be left without money, and the odds will be with huge spreads like 1.09-1.1-1.09 in friendly game

Oh dear, we will miss them all

[Trader724]

Unless things radically change in a smarter way I wouldn't be surprised to see bots banned in one way or another in addition to profitable accounts closed.

if that happens it will be one of the best days for me. Minus the main competitor in the markets. Because few people know how to trade manually like me, it was noticeable in the old markets.

Unfortunately, they will not dare to do this, because in the current realities, the markets will be left without money, and the odds will be with huge spreads like 1.09-1.1-1.09 in friendly game

Sounds like what T724 is saying there will eventually be one super efficient Bot left and that's the 'End Game' for Bots that rely on the inefficiencies of the market.

Oh dear, we will miss you all

Are you high?

[jamesedwards]

The automatic bot that fills all markets trades according to the same principle. You can check this on low liquidity matches in-play where there is no traders money. At the beginning of the game, the odds are random and then after 10-20 sec the bot sets bets according to bookmakers odds. This is on all games now, and this is the bot of betfair
They stubbornly do not want the markets to look lifeless, and on the one hand they are trying to prolong their agony by creating the illusion of trading, and on the other hand, they will not let such people like me make money on free market

There's no reason for this to be Betfair. There are organisations that have a B2B relationship with Betfair who provide liquidity using bots to build offers as you describe, plus there are thousands of individuals using API software such as Bet Angel who will be doing the same.

[jamesedwards]

I was gutted when the NSW giveaway was shut down due to the lowering of the turnover charge limit...

I've never really played Aus horses. What was this please, Derek?

[Derek27]

I was gutted when the NSW giveaway was shut down due to the lowering of the turnover charge limit...

I've never really played Aus horses. What was this please, Derek?

If your back turnover on NSW racing exceeds a certain limit, Betfair charges you a percentage (turnover charge) that wipes away your profit. This limit was reduced to 1000 AUS dollars which made trading it not worthwhile.

[ShaunWhite]

Of course - but who's placing 100 bets/sec or constantly 24/7 ( whatever that means ) on BF

So what is the max number of bets you are placing /sec or constantly 24/7

It varies a lot during the day for me. Betfair charge 0.2p charge per transaction over 5000/hr so that's a barrier. Although you use your commission generated to offset it. When they stopped allowing unlimited transactions it wasn't popular with some.

[jamesedwards]

I was gutted when the NSW giveaway was shut down due to the lowering of the turnover charge limit...

I've never really played Aus horses. What was this please, Derek?

If your back turnover on NSW racing exceeds a certain limit, Betfair charges you a percentage (turnover charge) that wipes away your profit. This limit was reduced to 1000 AUS dollars which made trading it not worthwhile.

I know that bit. I was interested in what the 'giveaway' was

[ShaunWhite]

The automatic bot that fills all markets trades according to the same principle. You can check this on low liquidity matches in-play where there is no traders money. At the beginning of the game, the odds are random and then after 10-20 sec the bot sets bets according to bookmakers odds. This is on all games now, and this is the bot of betfair
They stubbornly do not want the markets to look lifeless, and on the one hand they are trying to prolong their agony by creating the illusion of trading, and on the other hand, they will not let such people like me make money on free market

This really isn't what's going on. There's 100s of people running their own pricing models and they're the ones offering the prices. And having money in the market doesn't make it look active, that money has to be traded.

What's stopping you making money?

[Derek27]

I've never really played Aus horses. What was this please, Derek?

If your back turnover on NSW racing exceeds a certain limit, Betfair charges you a percentage (turnover charge) that wipes away your profit. This limit was reduced to 1000 AUS dollars which made trading it not worthwhile.

I know that bit. I was interested in what the giveaway was

Sorry, by giveaway, I meant it was so easy to win. Normally trading has a level of "fear" that stops you from overstaking, but the only fear trading NSW was getting carried away and exceeding your $6000 limit.

[ShaunWhite]

I've never really played Aus horses. What was this please, Derek?

If your back turnover on NSW racing exceeds a certain limit, Betfair charges you a percentage (turnover charge) that wipes away your profit. This limit was reduced to 1000 AUS dollars which made trading it not worthwhile.

I know that bit. I was interested in what the giveaway was

It used to only apply to thoroughbreds so you could do the pace and trots, but it's all of them now so laying small amounts and not hedging is the only thing worth considering. I don't do any nsw now apart from the dogs myself.