Eurozone debt crisis

[superfrank]

Let's just hope they don't engage in any money printing...

If they buy their own debt (with magic money) then it's effectively the same thing.

[Iron]

From The Telegraph:

'Borrowing costs of the debt-laden countries rise as traders doubt the Greek bailout deal will stem the eurozone crisis.'

Looks like it didn't take long for the grand plan to unravel...

Jeff

[Iron]

Argentina managed to forbid withdrawals for a long time, something that would be impossible to do under the EU laws.

The current arrangements are also forbidden under EU law:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danie ... n-the-law/

Jeff

[mulberryhawk]

An interstingly contemplative article on the political system in general in the telegraph.

I get the feeling that many of the bet angel forum users have conservative leanings (which would make sense given that we tend to spend our days participating in markets) so it would be interesting to hear any responses to the authors points.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... right.html

[superfrank]

It's a good article and I pretty much agree with it all.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" ~ John Dalberg-Acton.

I'm a firm believer in free markets (as the author says, "the Left’s blind faith in the state makes its remedies worse than useless") but I think the system is essentially corrupt in that it has been manipulated by the super rich for their own purposes.

Bankers are the true rulers of the world, politicians fall in line. Profits are privatised and losses socialised. That's not capitalism, it's corruption.

[Iron]

With any system of wealth distribution, people will seek to gain personal advantage, and that may be at the expense of others.

However, at least with capitalism, self-interest can benefit others. If the head of a communist state decides to award himself a pay rise, he's the only person to benefit. If an investor buys a new factory to boost his profits, he contributes to the economy...

"So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system."
Milton Friedman

'I am not a destroyer of companies. I am a liberator of them! The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.'

Gordon Gekko (the bad guy in the first Wall St movie)

Jeff

[mulberryhawk]

Jeff, am I right in saying that you`re using Gordon Gecco to champion the free market model, or are u just kidding?

[Iron]

I'm using Gordon Gecco's words, not the man himself! A foolish or evil person is capable of wise and noble words...

The word 'greed' has negative connotations. But put it this way - I feel that mankind's ambition is one of the forces that drives us to a better future (even though it does have negative as well as positive consequences).

Jeff

Jeff, am I right in saying that you`re using Gordon Gecco to champion the free market model, or are u just kidding?

[mulberryhawk]

Jeff, Gordon Gecco is a fictional character in a movie. He also was a vulture capitalist who bought companies to asset strip them for personal profit, which hardly serves as a decent reference to support your point

self-interest can benefit others.

.

The greed the banking and investment sector showed when selling off sub prime junk assets as triple A rated also does not seem to support your opinion that greed is good.

[Iron]

The fact that the quote came from Gordon Gekko is neither here nor there! I included it as it was a nice quote that make an interesting point.

And so-called vulture capitalists bring greater efficiency to the marketplace, which arguably ultimately benefits us all (even if there are sometimes job losses).

'By pursuing his own interest [the entrepreneur] frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it'.
Adam Smith (from The Wealth of Nations)

BTW, free market economist Milton Friedman nicely described Smith's 'invisible hand' theory as 'the possibility of co-operation without co-ertion'.

Jeff

[CaerMyrddin]

Hey Jeff, do you mean greed or ambition?

Beware of what you want, it might come true!

When I was studying at the Uni, I thought like you, and I must admit now it's a poor view. But then a professor really changed my way of thinking through games theory, and eventually my life, althought he doesn't know it

Take this exemple for an instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Not always a free market is the best way to act and thinking otherwise is innocent imho.

Keeping the balance between free markets and regulation is really one of the hardest challenges a politics maker faces and I wouldn't like to be in one's shoes

[Iron]

What I'm talking about is people persuing their own private interests, and thereby benefiting others (albeit unintentionally). So really, it's a mixture of greed, ambition and necessity!

As regards regulation, I'm in favour of letting the market do its thing with minimal regulation. If a country's businesses are tied down with red tape, it makes that country less competitive. Too much regulation benefits lawyers and bureaucrats at the expense of everyone else...

Jeff

Hey Jeff, do you mean greed or ambition?

[Iron]

Eurozone crisis fears continue as Italy forced to pay higher rates to borrow - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... orrow.html

Jeff

[Iron]

Moody's threatens Spain rating cut, euro falls - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/moodys-says-ma ... 49592.html

So much for last week's measures...

Jeff

[Euler]

I think I know how to solve the Eurozone crisis.

Apple holding more cash than USA

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14340470