Eurozone debt crisis

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Iron
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

The article says that:

'The United States is currently spending around $200bn more than it collects in revenue every month'.

That works out at about $640 per month per man, woman and child!

In that context, you can understand the Republicans taking such a tough line over the budget.

Jeff
Euler wrote:I think I know how to solve the Eurozone crisis.

Apple holding more cash than USA

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14340470
Iron
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Sign this petition if you want the British people to have a say on our EU membership!

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/262046

Jeff
payuppal
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:16 pm

Republican presidents in the last 30 years have raised the US national debt much more than Democrats, by any measure.

National Debt Added by President

Reagan $1.9 trillion ($2.9 trillion at term end)

Bush I $1.6 trillion ($4.4 trillion at term end)

Clinton $1.4 trillion ($5.8 trillion at term end)

Bush II $6.1 trillion ($11.9 trillion at term end)

Obama $2.1 trillion ($14.5 trillion at June 2011)

Source US Department of Treasury

Absolute numbers are not telling the real story. You have to add what amount of debt as a percentage of GDP that each president added. So to revise:

Reagan $1.9 trillion added (37.5% of GDP in 1988)
Bush I $1.6 trillion (25.4% of GDP in 1992)
Clinton $1.4 trillion (14.1% of GDP in 2000)
Bush II $6.1 trillion (42.4% of GDP in 2008)
Obama $2.1 trillion (14.3% of GDP in 2010)


They had 8 years in the White House, with complete control of Congress for part of the time.

Yet it's only now that they want to pass a constitutional amendment for a balanced budget.

It's like listening to hicks with Alzheimers.
Iron
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The issue right now isn't who did what in the past - that's a matter for historians. It's 'how do we go from here?'.

Whatever mistakes the Republicans made in the past, I applaud them for taking a tough stance on debt now, and trying to rein spending in before things spiral out of control.

Jeff
payuppal wrote:Republican presidents in the last 30 years have raised the US national debt much more than Democrats, by any measure.
payuppal
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Problem is, we've been here before.

Exactly the same sentiments from the Republicans in the Clinton mid terms, Gingrich came in, there was going to be a balanced budget.

Well there was, brought about by Democrat policies.

When the Republicans got back into office, big tax cuts were enacted and big spending increases, leading to a huge increase in the debt under W.hat people with no idea of the history swallow.

They don't mean it, it's a silly charade, t
Iron
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House rejects Reid debt plan as deadline looms -

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/30/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1

The article says that "Republicans, however, draw the line at tax increases, and a narrow majority of them oppose raising the debt ceiling under any circumstances'. (emphasis mine)

That makes me wonder whether the US really could be heading for a default. It the majority of Republicans are opposed to raising the debt ceiling, that means that they're willing to accept the consequences that would follow...

Jeff
Iron
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That stat doesn't tell the full story. :)

I was watching the senate debate last night, and one senator said that the national debt had risen from 10 trillion when Obama came into office to 14 trillion today. That's a 40% increase in national debt in the space of 3 years!

There's a graph on this page showing the national debt under various presidents: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14258888

Jeff
payuppal wrote: Obama $2.1 trillion (14.3% of GDP in 2010)
Iron
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It all depends on how you view the stats... :)

The stats in this graph suggest that the Republicans have gone quite a good job on the whole when it comes to spending: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Fe ... ighted.png

Jeff
payuppal wrote:Problem is, we've been here before.

Exactly the same sentiments from the Republicans in the Clinton mid terms, Gingrich came in, there was going to be a balanced budget.
Iron
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JULY 28, 2011
China Puts US on eBay

‘Government Sold Separately,’ Sales Listing Says

BEIJING – Showing its impatience with the debt ceiling stalemate in Washington, China today took the extraordinary step of putting the United States of America on eBay.

Officials at the online auction site said they believed it was the first time a major Western nation had been listed for sale there “if you don’t count Greece.”

In Beijing, the Chinese Finance Ministry said that it had considered waiting until August 2 to see if the US would ever pay back its multitrillion-dollar obligations, but ultimately decided to cut its losses.

“We think we’ll attract a buyer on eBay,” the Ministry said. “Say what you will about the US, it’s still one of the top fifty countries in the world.”

The sales listing for the US contains some interesting information, such as China’s description of the former superpower as being in “fair to average condition.”

The listing also includes the stipulation “government sold separately,” which the Finance Ministry took great pains to explain.

“We thought that including the government in the sale might turn off potential buyers,” the Ministry said. “Plus, the US government isn’t ours to sell anyway – it’s owned by the Koch brothers.”

With no bidders in the first 24 hours on eBay, China admitted that it would be challenging to unload the US, but it still held out hope that a buyer would step forward: “We’ve got our fingers crossed for Zuckerberg.”

At the White House, press secretary Jay Carney said that he understood China’s decision to sell the US, but warned that a buyer would have to turn up on eBay before August 2: “After that, the Internet gets shut off.”
Iron
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Spain PM postpones holiday as debt fears hit record - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14375056

Italy in eye of the storm as cash runs low - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... s-low.html

I wonder what Frau Merkel is thinking right now, having remortgaged the farm to save the Euro, only to find it deep in crisis again about a week later...

Jeff
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Euler
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Markets really tanking it today!
Iron
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This may be why: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14385636

Jeff
Euler wrote:Markets really tanking it today!
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superfrank
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The European situation is starting to look reminiscent of Britain's ERM crisis in 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday):

A half-baked European plan that was fundamentally flawed (ERM; Euro).

Professionals that realise that the plan is ultimately doomed to failure and are prepared to bet against it (George Soros; bond markets).

Idiotic politicians that are prepared to lose vast quantities of money (trying to buck the market) because they are not prepared to admit they got it wrong (Britain; Eurozone).
Iron
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Today too!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... -live.html

Interestingly, whilst Italy and Spain are having to pay through the teeth to borrow money, the yield on our 10 year gilts hit a post-war low yesterday: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... drums.html (although as the article points out, it's not cause for celebration!).

Jeff
Euler wrote:Markets really tanking it today!
Iron
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

I agree.

I read last night that the ECB are going to try to prop up the Euro on the financial markets. Considering that a sum of money equivalent to the world's GDP goes through the Forex market every fortnight, with the Euro being part of 39% of those transactions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_pair), I think they're whistling in the wind...

Jeff
superfrank wrote: Professionals that realise that the plan is ultimately doomed to failure and are prepared to bet against it (George Soros; bond markets).
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