Lay To Back Strategy inplay

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PeteSw62
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:13 pm

Hi
I've been thinking on what has been said about matching the market to the strategy and the tests I have been doing on the automation for this particular (L2B inplay) strategy. I've also seen on other threads that it is important to tweak these 'stock' automations for our own use.

I'm considering tweaks, based on these observations:
  • In my tests, with the horses I am choosing, based on InformRacing data I am getting a high percentage correct. That was giving a nice profit
  • That profit would have been wiped out by a factor of 10 by one horse that layed high and went on to win.
So I made modifications:
  • I added a Green rule based on a negative profit, but that often triggered too quickly resulting in an overall loss across several races
  • I decreased the value of the loss trigger from -£3 to -£10, but that still triggered frequently on horses that would have been better left and resulted in an overall loss
I have implemented a 'dampening' to the greening (thank you again Dallas) but I am also wondering about these tweaks:

1. Reducing the number of ticks above the lay that the back bet is made for.
This will reduce my profit per race, but I think it may produce more races that are profitable. As I have noticed that on almost all of my selections the odds to go up, but not by 10 ticks, the horse's odds can then reduce for a bit, triggering the greening, but then go back up and eventually the horses losses. Had the initial back bet been closer to the lay I would have been in profit.

2. Reducing the 10 Second Delay on Start
I notice almost all of the horses I'm choosing seem to have lower odds in the first 10 seconds of the race and my lay bet is going in after they have gone up a few ticks.

3. Adding a condition to test for large changes in odds before making the lay bet
This is to rule out sudden large increase in odds due to the horse messing about in the stalls. That is essentially the reason for my first wipe out. The horses' odds drifted massively because it suddenly looked bad, a lay bet went in somewhere like 10 ticks above where it had been just pre race, the back bet aorund 20 ticks. After 10 seconds the odds stabilised again and bounced up and down, and then the horse steamed home to win. Had the lay been at the pre race odds I would have made a small profit, as it was it would have been a massive loss (thankfully I was in practice mode!!)

I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts. I've never paid any attention to horse racing before so this is all very new to me.

Thank you in advance. :)
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 10631
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Are you aware of the importance of 'value' and the fact that 'market efficiency' that means obtaining value is difficult?

Long term you need to be getting your bets matched at prices that are 'better' than the real world likelihood, and no amount of x ticks up x ticks down jiggery pokery will create that. The prices being offered to the market are placed there by traders offering poor value, you don't mention if you're just taking these prices or making offers yourself. It's the primary difference between being a trader and a punter. Try to make the mental leap from being a gambler betting on horses to being the guy that gamblers are losing their money to.
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Kai
Posts: 7301
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

PeteSw62 wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:07 am
I'm considering tweaks, based on these observations:
  • In my tests, with the horses I am choosing, based on InformRacing data I am getting a high percentage correct. That was giving a nice profit
  • That profit would have been wiped out by a factor of 10 by one horse that layed high and went on to win.
Expecting to profit already? 3 days in?

Not sure the market will like that
PeteSw62
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:13 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:01 pm
Are you aware of the importance of 'value' and the fact that 'market efficiency' that means obtaining value is difficult?

Long term you need to be getting your bets matched at prices that are 'better' than the real world likelihood, and no amount of x ticks up x ticks down jiggery pokery will create that. The prices being offered to the market are placed there by traders offering poor value, you don't mention if you're just taking these prices or making offers yourself. It's the primary difference between being a trader and a punter. Try to make the mental leap from being a gambler betting on horses to being the guy that gamblers are losing their money to.
In all honesty I would answer that with a 'no'.

I'm trying to learn by just working through the BetAngel.TV videos and the Acadamy stuff. Saw the 'L2B' video and thought I would test it. That's the way I have always learned, by trying to understand something and then testing my understanding in some way. I've been that way since I taught myself Basic to solve quadratic equations in 1987 using a ZX Spectrum! lol
PeteSw62
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:13 pm

Kai wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:48 pm
PeteSw62 wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:07 am
I'm considering tweaks, based on these observations:
  • In my tests, with the horses I am choosing, based on InformRacing data I am getting a high percentage correct. That was giving a nice profit
  • That profit would have been wiped out by a factor of 10 by one horse that layed high and went on to win.
Expecting to profit already? 3 days in?

Not sure the market will like that
My profits are so small I think the market will think they are rounding errors ;)
User avatar
Kai
Posts: 7301
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

PeteSw62 wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:42 pm
Kai wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:48 pm
PeteSw62 wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:07 am
I'm considering tweaks, based on these observations:
  • In my tests, with the horses I am choosing, based on InformRacing data I am getting a high percentage correct. That was giving a nice profit
  • That profit would have been wiped out by a factor of 10 by one horse that layed high and went on to win.
Expecting to profit already? 3 days in?

Not sure the market will like that
My profits are so small I think the market will think they are rounding errors ;)
Good answer!

Yeah, no need to put yourself under pressure, profits can come later when they are fully deserved
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