UK General Election 2024 (or 25)

[greenmark]

They should all be sacked. Asking for a 35% pay increase is madness. Everyone should be made to have private health care. No ifs, buts or maybe. Country can no longer afford the NHS in its current format.

50% from state
50% from employers and employees

Why do you think South Korea has a great health service. Because somebody has to pay for it.

Bearing in mind junior doctors haven't had pay rises in line with inflation for over 15 years 35% seems amicable but reckon they'll settle for 25%, take you anger out on the politicians for years of incompetence, suppressing workers pay and rights and not workers fighting for fair pay and conditions. Classic Tory tactics trying to turn the people against the junior doctors as they did with the rail workers (that worked out well for them) when the blame lies at the doorstop of Tory's, lined their own pockets for 13 years now the people are fighting back.

The NHS was a great health service, ran into the ground by successive governments along with miss-management to the the point where there's no option but to privatise it however we still won't end up with the utopia of a South Korean health system as all our politicians and rich will do is milk every penny of privatisation for their own end with contracts awarded to "friends" just look at the Covid contract corruption.

The people who will suffer the most as ever will be the poorest.

I don't know precisely what has happened to junior doctor's pay "in the round".
For one thing the BMA uses RPI for inflation. CPI has been the standard for a long time now. Sure enough they've had 4 years of 0% increase since 2008 and the RPI has been far higher than the increases they received. But my feeble understanding of CPI vs RPI is RPI includes mortgage inflation and CPI is based on consumer products and services inflation. So RPI reflects the property price boom.
Well, sorry BMA you can't include that in your calculations. It's misleading. Your average doctor will have profited from the property boom, so it's not a factor them or anyone that managed to get onto the property ladder. If you overstretched yourself for a mortgage, tough. Interest rates can go up at any moment. And they have, so suck it up.

And this is the problem the media is doing a crap job at actuallly describing the issues.
My gut tell's me the BMA are gaming the situation in the aftermath of covid to exploit public sympathy for a group that took a right battering.
But they need to be careful not to get too greedy.

[Archery1969]

They should all be sacked. Asking for a 35% pay increase is madness. Everyone should be made to have private health care. No ifs, buts or maybe. Country can no longer afford the NHS in its current format.

50% from state
50% from employers and employees

Why do you think South Korea has a great health service. Because somebody has to pay for it.

Bearing in mind junior doctors haven't had pay rises in line with inflation for over 15 years 35% seems amicable but reckon they'll settle for 25%, take you anger out on the politicians for years of incompetence, suppressing workers pay and rights and not workers fighting for fair pay and conditions. Classic Tory tactics trying to turn the people against the junior doctors as they did with the rail workers (that worked out well for them) when the blame lies at the doorstop of Tory's, lined their own pockets for 13 years now the people are fighting back.

The NHS was a great health service, ran into the ground by successive governments along with miss-management to the the point where there's no option but to privatise it however we still won't end up with the utopia of a South Korean health system as all our politicians and rich will do is milk every penny of privatisation for their own end with contracts awarded to "friends" just look at the Covid contract corruption.

The people who will suffer the most as ever will be the poorest.

It will go the same way as Royal Mail is about too. Administration with thousands losing their jobs.

[greenmark]

They should all be sacked. Asking for a 35% pay increase is madness. Everyone should be made to have private health care. No ifs, buts or maybe. Country can no longer afford the NHS in its current format.

50% from state
50% from employers and employees

Why do you think South Korea has a great health service. Because somebody has to pay for it.

Bearing in mind junior doctors haven't had pay rises in line with inflation for over 15 years 35% seems amicable but reckon they'll settle for 25%, take you anger out on the politicians for years of incompetence, suppressing workers pay and rights and not workers fighting for fair pay and conditions. Classic Tory tactics trying to turn the people against the junior doctors as they did with the rail workers (that worked out well for them) when the blame lies at the doorstop of Tory's, lined their own pockets for 13 years now the people are fighting back.

The NHS was a great health service, ran into the ground by successive governments along with miss-management to the the point where there's no option but to privatise it however we still won't end up with the utopia of a South Korean health system as all our politicians and rich will do is milk every penny of privatisation for their own end with contracts awarded to "friends" just look at the Covid contract corruption.

The people who will suffer the most as ever will be the poorest.

It will go the same way as Royal Mail is about too. Administration with thousands losing their jobs.

No it won't. But it's a good point. Both Royal Mail and Rail have been privatised and are teetering on the edge (with rail, basic service having to be bailed out by the state). And private money in the NHS (via PFI's and farming services out to private companies that then reduce eomployees T&C's and rake off the difference).

Bottom line. The Tories have had a good long go at it. We're up a creek without a paddle. Flatline FTSE since 2016, best growth in developed countries? Yes, but having fallen behind since 2016, so we're playing catch-up. If the nation can't see the need for change I despair!

[Michael5482]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749

UK set to be one of the worst performing G20 country's that includes Russia and it's sanctions.

[Archery1969]

Luckily I am retiring next year, overseas. The election won’t be called until 2025. So it’s going to be shit for many until then and at least 5 to 10 years after. The problems/issues are systemic and will take a long time and money to fix.

[Michael5482]

Luckily I am retiring next year, overseas. The election won’t be called until 2025. So it’s going to be shit for many until then and at least 5 to 10 years after. The problems/issues are systemic and will take a long time and money to fix.

Agree with you there just show's you what a mess the country is in. I don't see anyone remotely competent enough in any party with the vision or policy to even attempt to turn it around. Bad times ahead IMO and don't blame you for retiring abroad you'll have no doubt earned it.

[Michael5482]

They should all be sacked. Asking for a 35% pay increase is madness. Everyone should be made to have private health care. No ifs, buts or maybe. Country can no longer afford the NHS in its current format.

50% from state
50% from employers and employees

Why do you think South Korea has a great health service. Because somebody has to pay for it.

Bearing in mind junior doctors haven't had pay rises in line with inflation for over 15 years 35% seems amicable but reckon they'll settle for 25%, take you anger out on the politicians for years of incompetence, suppressing workers pay and rights and not workers fighting for fair pay and conditions. Classic Tory tactics trying to turn the people against the junior doctors as they did with the rail workers (that worked out well for them) when the blame lies at the doorstop of Tory's, lined their own pockets for 13 years now the people are fighting back.

The NHS was a great health service, ran into the ground by successive governments along with miss-management to the the point where there's no option but to privatise it however we still won't end up with the utopia of a South Korean health system as all our politicians and rich will do is milk every penny of privatisation for their own end with contracts awarded to "friends" just look at the Covid contract corruption.

The people who will suffer the most as ever will be the poorest.

I don't know precisely what has happened to junior doctor's pay "in the round".
For one thing the BMA uses RPI for inflation. CPI has been the standard for a long time now. Sure enough they've had 4 years of 0% increase since 2008 and the RPI has been far higher than the increases they received. But my feeble understanding of CPI vs RPI is RPI includes mortgage inflation and CPI is based on consumer products and services inflation. So RPI reflects the property price boom.
Well, sorry BMA you can't include that in your calculations. It's misleading. Your average doctor will have profited from the property boom, so it's not a factor them or anyone that managed to get onto the property ladder. If you overstretched yourself for a mortgage, tough. Interest rates can go up at any moment. And they have, so suck it up.

And this is the problem the media is doing a crap job at actuallly describing the issues.
My gut tell's me the BMA are gaming the situation in the aftermath of covid to exploit public sympathy for a group that took a right battering.
But they need to be careful not to get too greedy.

CPI or RPI makes no difference like most they've been underpaid for years . Paying some £14 an hour to perform operations is disgusting the health minister ought to be ashamed but doubt he has any in the 1st place.

Agree it's difficult with the news, most of it now is just presenter's talking over people there supposed to be interviewing spouting the Tory propaganda line of questioning. Nothing enlightens my day more when I see people like Mick Lynch taking them to school.

[greenmark]

Bearing in mind junior doctors haven't had pay rises in line with inflation for over 15 years 35% seems amicable but reckon they'll settle for 25%, take you anger out on the politicians for years of incompetence, suppressing workers pay and rights and not workers fighting for fair pay and conditions. Classic Tory tactics trying to turn the people against the junior doctors as they did with the rail workers (that worked out well for them) when the blame lies at the doorstop of Tory's, lined their own pockets for 13 years now the people are fighting back.

The NHS was a great health service, ran into the ground by successive governments along with miss-management to the the point where there's no option but to privatise it however we still won't end up with the utopia of a South Korean health system as all our politicians and rich will do is milk every penny of privatisation for their own end with contracts awarded to "friends" just look at the Covid contract corruption.

The people who will suffer the most as ever will be the poorest.

I don't know precisely what has happened to junior doctor's pay "in the round".
For one thing the BMA uses RPI for inflation. CPI has been the standard for a long time now. Sure enough they've had 4 years of 0% increase since 2008 and the RPI has been far higher than the increases they received. But my feeble understanding of CPI vs RPI is RPI includes mortgage inflation and CPI is based on consumer products and services inflation. So RPI reflects the property price boom.
Well, sorry BMA you can't include that in your calculations. It's misleading. Your average doctor will have profited from the property boom, so it's not a factor them or anyone that managed to get onto the property ladder. If you overstretched yourself for a mortgage, tough. Interest rates can go up at any moment. And they have, so suck it up.

And this is the problem the media is doing a crap job at actuallly describing the issues.
My gut tell's me the BMA are gaming the situation in the aftermath of covid to exploit public sympathy for a group that took a right battering.
But they need to be careful not to get too greedy.

CPI or RPI makes no difference like most they've been underpaid for years . Paying some £14 an hour to perform operations is disgusting the health minister ought to be ashamed but doubt he has any in the 1st place.

Agree it's difficult with the news, most of it now is just presenter's talking over people there supposed to be interviewing spouting the Tory propaganda line of questioning. Nothing enlightens my day more when I see people like Mick Lynch taking them to school.

Do junior doctors perform operations?

EDIT: I don't think they do. They assist an expericenced surgeon.
All newly qualified doctors spend two years in training as foundation doctors. At least three months must be spent in surgery and three months in general medicine. Foundation doctors will typically spend four months on a placement. Once they have completed their first year of training, they are eligible for full registration with the General Medical Council (GMC). On surgical teams, foundation doctors are mainly concerned with preparing patients and observing procedures conducted by the surgical trainees. Foundation doctors with a keen interest in surgery may be given opportunities to assist in minor elements of surgery under close supervision.

[Derek27]

Luckily I am retiring next year, overseas.

You'll have to build a new nuclear bunker!

[Michael5482]

I don't know precisely what has happened to junior doctor's pay "in the round".
For one thing the BMA uses RPI for inflation. CPI has been the standard for a long time now. Sure enough they've had 4 years of 0% increase since 2008 and the RPI has been far higher than the increases they received. But my feeble understanding of CPI vs RPI is RPI includes mortgage inflation and CPI is based on consumer products and services inflation. So RPI reflects the property price boom.
Well, sorry BMA you can't include that in your calculations. It's misleading. Your average doctor will have profited from the property boom, so it's not a factor them or anyone that managed to get onto the property ladder. If you overstretched yourself for a mortgage, tough. Interest rates can go up at any moment. And they have, so suck it up.

And this is the problem the media is doing a crap job at actuallly describing the issues.
My gut tell's me the BMA are gaming the situation in the aftermath of covid to exploit public sympathy for a group that took a right battering.
But they need to be careful not to get too greedy.

CPI or RPI makes no difference like most they've been underpaid for years . Paying some £14 an hour to perform operations is disgusting the health minister ought to be ashamed but doubt he has any in the 1st place.

Agree it's difficult with the news, most of it now is just presenter's talking over people there supposed to be interviewing spouting the Tory propaganda line of questioning. Nothing enlightens my day more when I see people like Mick Lynch taking them to school.

Do junior doctors perform operations?

Minor under supervision I believe so, normally they just hold the surgeons tools but depends on qualifications/experience as I read it, they have to learn and step up somewhere along the line. That is another issue for striking due to shortages there being put in positions they shouldn't be but the news just tells you it's all about the pay and the disruption there causing.

[Archery1969]

Luckily I am retiring next year, overseas.

You'll have to build a new nuclear bunker!

It will be cheaper than the one I got now.

Mine was made in USA and I retiring to Canada, so transportation and installation costs will be lower. So I might get a bigger one.

[firlandsfarm]

If the nation can't see the need for change I despair!

Of dear, change for the sake of change! Who is to say the recently proven to be immoral, lying Labour will be any better/different?

[firlandsfarm]

CPI or RPI makes no difference like most they've been underpaid for years .

They are different figures, computed differently with different rates How can it be said there is no difference?

Paying some £14 an hour to perform operations is disgusting

Only first year JD's are at that rate and they do not perform operations ... more misinformation from the left!

[Archangel]

They asked a political analyst why Joe Biden claims to be Irish

"Forty Million Votes"

[Michael5482]

CPI or RPI makes no difference like most they've been underpaid for years .

They are different figures, computed differently with different rates How can it be said there is no difference?

Paying some £14 an hour to perform operations is disgusting

Only first year JD's are at that rate and they do not perform operations ... more misinformation from the left!

I was merely stating that no mater what index you compute both show they've been underpaid.

See my previous post another reason junior doctors are on strike is there being put under pressure due to shortages to do more than there permitted to do putting patients at risk including the £14 per hour ones (absolutely criminal any junior doctor is paid this rate)

This misinformation is not from the left and come's from the junior doctors who are fighting for fair pay, better working conditions and safer patient care.