Eurozone debt crisis

[superfrank]

What the Europeans fail to realise is that you can fix politics (as they have done), but you can't fix markets.

The whole European project is an undemocratic sham (designed as a massive gravy train for those that are part of it, with vested interests then so big that it becomes impossible to stop).

Whenever the people do get a say in things (which is seldom) they generally vote against - but they then just keep holding referendums until they get the answer they want.

Europe should just be a free trade area with statutes that make foreign exchange transactions cost free. In fact the world should be able to exchange goods and services in differing currencies at spot rates - the present situation is one where banks (including VISA, Mastercard etc.) essentially tax all trade like the parasites they are (it's a similar to a protection racket).

A few years ago I bought some goods from the US and had to pay with a credit card - the exchange rate I got was a complete joke (about a 8-9% transaction cost). Forex transactions are a scam and in no way reflect the banking costs involved. If this scam was ended by politicians it would provide a massive boost to world trade and remove unnecessary costs for business and individuals.

[Iron]

I agree.

IMHO, the real reason left wing parties are so fond of the EU is because it's a left wing organisation which has strong powers in this country, and in which the British people have very little democratic representation (meaning their choice is to like it or lump it!).

And don't even get me started on our payments to the EU! When police officers and social workers are being laid off, why are we effectively giving foreign aid to first world European countries?!?

Jeff

[payuppal]

Tens of millions of people dead in the first half of the 20th century was a pretty good reason to look for another way in Europe, IMO.

And the transfers are supposed to create markets for our goods.

[Iron]

The irony is that the EU could make future wars between European states more, not less, likely.

When you get some European countries suffering austerity measures, and others having to mortgage themselves to the hilt to bail out other countries, you have the seeds of discontent...

I'm not sure what you mean by 'The transfers are supposed to create markets for our goods'. Are saying that the money we pay to the EU is in our interest because the money we give might be used to buy British goods, ie French farmers might use their EU subsidy money to buy a tractor manufactured in Britain? If so, I think there are far more effective ways in which the government could stimulate the UK economy...

Jeff

Tens of millions of people dead in the first half of the 20th century was a pretty good reason to look for another way in Europe, IMO.

[hgodden]

The irony is that the EU could make future wars between European states more, not less, likely.

There'll never be wars between first world countries, not in our lifetime anyway, its bad for business

[hgodden]

Although having said that things might get a bit heated once the oil starts running out!

[Iron]

I hope you're right - and I also hope that, if there is a war, I'm too old to be conscripted!

BTW, I'm not sure wars are always bad for business - it depends on what you get out of the war.

Jeff

There'll never be wars between first world countries, not in our lifetime anyway, its bad for business

[Iron]

PS I don't want to sound all doom and gloom, but who says that a war between Western European countries would be a war between first world countries. We might be first world now; whether that will be the case in a few years remains to be seen...

Jeff

[payuppal]

[quote][There'll never be wars between first world countries, not in our lifetime anyway, its bad for business/quote]

I think you will find they had invented business by 1914.

Did not stop 2 huge wars in 30 years.

[Iron]

From Channel 4 News's twitter feed:

'The FTSE 100 Index fell 3.4 per cent today, wiping nearly £50 billion from its value, amid fresh eurozone and US debt fears.'

Scary stuff...

Jeff

[hgodden]

[There'll never be wars between first world countries, not in our lifetime anyway, its bad for business/quote]

I think you will find they had invented business by 1914.

Did not stop 2 huge wars in 30 years.

Sure but back then the world (and the politicians) weren't ruled by massive corporations as much as today. Whos going to want to buy an iPad or a pair of baby Gucci shoes for their kids when bombs are dropping all around them?

Everyone is moaning all the time about how bad things are but seriously I think we're living in an extremely priviliged time compared to any other in human history

[convoysur]

i know not what weapons will be used for world war 3..
but i know sticks and stones will be used for world
war 4...
Albert Einstein,,,,,,

[lilgreenback]

I think that continuing economic uncertainty and as hgodden say's the oil running out is a likely catalyst. There may not be a full scale war in Western Europe but there is always the likelihood of armed civil unrest or limited territorial confrontation.

Remember the 70's when we were running up against the (mighty) Icelandic fishing fleet, and that was just over cod (n chips)

Things could get a lot more intense with a mix or continually rising prices, further unemployment and migrating populations from areas already suffering war & fammine, pressurising neighbouring countries limited resources thus creating a domino effect.

Our utility companies and energy supply is generally owned by forigen companies leaving us vulnerable in 1940/41 it was German U-boats that threatened to starve us, in a few years it could be a Russian with a spanner turning the gas off.

[superfrank]

You gotta love these European politicians making speeches about the markets not responding as they should be.

Cabbages.

[Iron]

Any trader could tell them that markets rarely behave as they should!

I'm going to be watching the markets in 5 minutes' time - Non farm payroll should be interesting...

Jeff

You gotta love these European politicians making speeches about the markets not responding as they should be.

Cabbages.