Ukraine Crisis

[Archery1969]

Two bridges hit in Crimea.

News is reporting that the UK told Ukraine to do it.

I find that very strange. Is the UK at war with Russia, is this a ploy to drag the UK directly into the conflict to deflect domestic problems at home ?

Last PM to do something similar was Mrs ‘T’ back in 1982, which worked during that period.

[Archangel]

Two bridges hit in Crimea.

News is reporting that the UK told Ukraine to do it.

I find that very strange. Is the UK at war with Russia, is this a ploy to drag the UK directly into the conflict to deflect domestic problems at home ?

Last PM to do something similar was Mrs ‘T’ back in 1982, which worked during that period.

The idea that a government would drag a nation into a hot war for votes is appaling. But it has happened before as we know

[greenmark]

Two bridges hit in Crimea.

News is reporting that the UK told Ukraine to do it.

I find that very strange. Is the UK at war with Russia, is this a ploy to drag the UK directly into the conflict to deflect domestic problems at home ?

Last PM to do something similar was Mrs ‘T’ back in 1982, which worked during that period.

The idea that a government would drag a nation into a hot war for votes is appaling. But it has happened before as we know

Winning against Argentina is nothing like winning against Russia. Sunak would have to be stark raving mad to become active in Ukraine.
Ok they were British missiles but we've been supplying Ukraine with all sorts of military and other support (as have others).
The notion that Britain could/would "order" an attack is laughable.

[Archery1969]

Don't shoot the messenger


BBC News:

- Ukraine has attacked a bridge linking southern Ukraine to the Crimean peninsula with long-range British missiles, Russian officials say. The two parallel Chonhar bridges were both damaged, said the Russian-installed governor in occupied Kherson Vladimir Saldo. No-one was hurt. Mr Saldo said it was likely British Storm Shadow missiles were used in an attack "ordered by London".

- President Zelensky told Ukrainians on Thursday that intelligence services had received information that Russia was preparing the "scenario of a terrorist attack" on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, seized during the full-scale invasion last year.

- Vladimir Saldo threatened to retaliate for the latest attack by targeting a bridge linking neighbouring Moldova with Romania. Romania, a Nato member, and Moldova condemned his comments as unacceptable.

[staker72]

Russia threatens many things, threatening and doing are totally different things as any open and direct attack against any NATO member risks (and arguably demands) NATO getting directly involved in the conflict.

NATOs limited logistical and intelligence support to Ukraine has made what should have been a brief tussle into a war that has shredded and humiliated what was once regarded as one of the most powerful militaries in the world. A situation where it risks having to face the full and unadulterated might of NATO hardly seems a strategy to ensure success.

The destruction of dams, whilst arguably makes sense from a defensive position has largely damaged Russian held parts of Ukraine and ironically rendered useless canals and irrigation for Crimea even though getting control of said water was a major reason for the invasion after Ukraine cut it off.

Effectively Putin has lost this conflict, even if everyone kissed and made up tomorrow, all he would have won is a ruined land and still no water for Crimea. The danger from a global perspective is that Putin must also realise this so might do something desperate and irrational.

I am sure many powerful Russians have also worked this out and also that whatever the outcome of an escalation it wouldn't end well for Russia. I suspect Putin's days are numbered now as it is becoming increasingly clear that invading Ukraine, far from increasing Russia's security has done the opposite and wasted a huge number of lives and resources.

Ironically, although we are looking at a massive rebuilding program in Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up having to do something to help Russia to prevent a massive humanitarian crisis.

[napshnap]

...
Ironically, although we are looking at a massive rebuilding program in Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up having to do something to help Russia to prevent a massive humanitarian crisis.

I read about recent Superfriends meeting dedicated to this problem and, ironically, it felt like it was fundraising for the church (you know, when they poke you with that long stick with a basket that you have to throw money into) filled with Scrooges.

[Archangel]

I read about recent Superfriends meeting dedicated to this problem and, ironically, it felt like it was fundraising for the church (you know, when they poke you with that long stick with a basket that you have to throw money into) filled with Scrooges.

You should find a church where they dont poke you with sticks...

[Archery1969]

I read about recent Superfriends meeting dedicated to this problem and, ironically, it felt like it was fundraising for the church (you know, when they poke you with that long stick with a basket that you have to throw money into) filled with Scrooges.

You should find a church where they dont poke you with sticks...

[napshnap]

I read about recent Superfriends meeting dedicated to this problem and, ironically, it felt like it was fundraising for the church (you know, when they poke you with that long stick with a basket that you have to throw money into) filled with Scrooges.

You should find a church where they dont poke you with sticks...

I prefer sects, it's a way more progressive)).

[Archangel]

Who knows if Crimea is real target for liberation by Ukraine, but it would make sense. Occupation of Crimea enables the Russian military to threaten Ukranian positions from the south and gives Russias Black Sea fleet a base for long range attacks. Not to mention how important access to the ports is for Ukranian economy

[greenmark]

I'd rather we provided humanitarian aid than stuff to klll people, but Putin has set the agenda. Ukraine and their allies have been trying manage the chaos Putin has unleashed. It's for Ukraine to fight and boy have they fought. We can sell arms to anyone we like. Putin doesn't have a say in those transactions.

Bottom line for Putin is don't invade a sovereign country (the creation of which was signed off by one of your predecessors) and none of this crap would be happening.
I'd like to say "when are Russians going to wake up and bring Putin down". But it's evident they know he's bad. But anyone that says so get's banged up for years.
Navalny is now facing decades in jail. And he isn't alone.
When Putin is willing to jail a pop group for singing a song it tells you all you need to know.

[napshnap]

Who knows if Crimea is real target for liberation by Ukraine, but it would make sense. Occupation of Crimea enables the Russian military to threaten Ukranian positions from the south and gives Russias Black Sea fleet a base for long range attacks. Not to mention how important access to the ports is for Ukranian economy

Omg, do you really think in this categories - "occupation", like people over there walking in chains, begging for Superfriends to save them?? I should ask some of my folks over there if they need some blankets and cans of beans)).
Like, wtf, seriously))??

[napshnap]

I'd rather we provided humanitarian aid than stuff to klll people, but Putin has set the agenda. Ukraine and their allies have been trying manage the chaos Putin has unleashed. It's for Ukraine to fight and boy have they fought. We can sell arms to anyone we like. Putin doesn't have a say in those transactions.

Bottom line for Putin is don't invade a sovereign country (the creation of which was signed off by one of your predecessors) and none of this crap would be happening.

Recently, he complained that the country was rejected to join nato, he asked, but it rejected. Offended the man - now reap the fruits. Awfully tasted fruits.

I'd like to say "when are Russians going to wake up and bring Putin down". But it's evident they know he's bad. But anyone that says so get's banged up for years.
Navalny is now facing decades in jail. And he isn't alone.
...

I would discuss the connectedness of these things, but Peter doesn't like conspiracies discussions here).

[Selmer]

Who knows if Crimea is real target for liberation by Ukraine, but it would make sense. Occupation of Crimea enables the Russian military to threaten Ukranian positions from the south and gives Russias Black Sea fleet a base for long range attacks. Not to mention how important access to the ports is for Ukranian economy

Omg, do you really think in this categories - "occupation", like people over there walking in chains, begging for Superfriends to save them?? I should ask some of my folks over there if they need some blankets and cans of beans)).
Like, wtf, seriously))??

If Ukraine managed to regain control of Crimea and Donbass, they would face a serious problem of having to convince the population that they lived in occupation for 9 years.

[napshnap]

Who knows if Crimea is real target for liberation by Ukraine, but it would make sense. Occupation of Crimea enables the Russian military to threaten Ukranian positions from the south and gives Russias Black Sea fleet a base for long range attacks. Not to mention how important access to the ports is for Ukranian economy

Omg, do you really think in this categories - "occupation", like people over there walking in chains, begging for Superfriends to save them?? I should ask some of my folks over there if they need some blankets and cans of beans)).
Like, wtf, seriously))??

If Ukraine managed to regain control of Crimea and Donbass, they would face a serious problem of having to convince the population that they lived in occupation for 9 years.

You can do wonders with a power of the state machine.