Ukraine Crisis

[Derek27]

Sky News:

Poland 'secretly sent Ukraine fighter jets and attack helicopters'

No!!!! Surely not! You're ex-military are you not? This is NATO's response. Don't attack our friends and we won't supply them with lethal force. Attack our friends and whether they are part of NATO or not we will supply anything they want to DEFEND THEMSELVES (but on NATO's terms).

Following your logic, the help should be limited only to defense systems and non-lethal stuff, like Israel does. Maybe you meant to ATTACK THE AGGRESSOR, though, but that where the fn circus begins, like "oh, we honestly promise not to bomb civs with this "bomb the civs" weapon!"

There's no such thing as a civilian bomb, it's a matter of where you drop them. Russia has been dropping cluster bombs on Kyiv, but Ukraine will be dropping them on their own land and will obviously want to avoid civilian casualties.

[napshnap]

No!!!! Surely not! You're ex-military are you not? This is NATO's response. Don't attack our friends and we won't supply them with lethal force. Attack our friends and whether they are part of NATO or not we will supply anything they want to DEFEND THEMSELVES (but on NATO's terms).

Following your logic, the help should be limited only to defense systems and non-lethal stuff, like Israel does. Maybe you meant to ATTACK THE AGGRESSOR, though, but that where the fn circus begins, like "oh, we honestly promise not to bomb civs with this "bomb the civs" weapon!"

There's no such thing as a civilian bomb, it's a matter of where you drop them. Russia has been dropping cluster bombs on Kyiv, but Ukraine will be dropping them on their own land and will obviously want to avoid civilian casualties.

What is that magic that turns unacceptable bad for civs weapon into acceptable bad for civs weapon? Promises, with which you can wipe your ass?

[greenmark]

Following your logic, the help should be limited only to defense systems and non-lethal stuff, like Israel does. Maybe you meant to ATTACK THE AGGRESSOR, though, but that where the fn circus begins, like "oh, we honestly promise not to bomb civs with this "bomb the civs" weapon!"

There's no such thing as a civilian bomb, it's a matter of where you drop them. Russia has been dropping cluster bombs on Kyiv, but Ukraine will be dropping them on their own land and will obviously want to avoid civilian casualties.

What is that magic that turns unacceptable bad for civs weapon into acceptable bad for civs weapon? Promises, with which you can wipe your ass?

None of this would be relevent if Putin hadn't attempted to annex Ukraine. Well he failed and a lot of people have died to prove that.

[napshnap]

There's no such thing as a civilian bomb, it's a matter of where you drop them. Russia has been dropping cluster bombs on Kyiv, but Ukraine will be dropping them on their own land and will obviously want to avoid civilian casualties.

What is that magic that turns unacceptable bad for civs weapon into acceptable bad for civs weapon? Promises, with which you can wipe your ass?

None of this would be relevent if Putin hadn't attempted to annex Ukraine. Well he failed and a lot of people have died to prove that.

Oh, it is relevant. The west considers itself on a "right", "moral" ground, but constantly drops the bar making up ridiculous excuses.

[greenmark]

What is that magic that turns unacceptable bad for civs weapon into acceptable bad for civs weapon? Promises, with which you can wipe your ass?

None of this would be relevent if Putin hadn't attempted to annex Ukraine. Well he failed and a lot of people have died to prove that.

Oh, it is relevant. The west considers itself on a "right", "moral" ground, but constantly drops the bar making up ridiculous excuses.

"The West"? Like thats some kind of definition of evil. Chief, you need to accept that Putin is an evil man. He's transported Russia from integration, global respect and competition with the rest of the world to being a pariah state.
Putin and his cronies are the worst thing to happen to Russia for decades there is no hding from that fact.

[napshnap]

None of this would be relevent if Putin hadn't attempted to annex Ukraine. Well he failed and a lot of people have died to prove that.

Oh, it is relevant. The west considers itself on a "right", "moral" ground, but constantly drops the bar making up ridiculous excuses.

"The West"? Like thats some kind of definition of evil. ...

I'm not demonizing (but I don't want idolize it either) it, it's the govs job. It just convenient term to use. Suggest yours, I'll use it.

He's transported Russia from integration, global respect and competition with the rest of the world to being a pariah state.

Check this post, updated it - viewtopic.php?p=332509#p332509. You spoiled him

[greenmark]

Oh, it is relevant. The west considers itself on a "right", "moral" ground, but constantly drops the bar making up ridiculous excuses.

"The West"? Like thats some kind of definition of evil. ...

I'm not demonizing (but I don't want idolize it either) it, it's the govs job. It just convenient term to use. Suggest yours, I'll use it.

He's transported Russia from integration, global respect and competition with the rest of the world to being a pariah state.

Check this post, updated it - viewtopic.php?p=332509#p332509. You spoiled him

You can't join NATO unless you agree to assinate people on NATO's terms,

[napshnap]

"The West"? Like thats some kind of definition of evil. ...

I'm not demonizing (but I don't want idolize it either) it, it's the govs job. It just convenient term to use. Suggest yours, I'll use it.

He's transported Russia from integration, global respect and competition with the rest of the world to being a pariah state.

Check this post, updated it - viewtopic.php?p=332509#p332509. You spoiled him

You can't join NATO unless you agree to assinate people on NATO's terms,

Sounds creepy.
The situation reminds me this episode from "The Fall of the Roman Empire" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecMfU3910WY
Just suck in every country and then the whole fn universe into nato and let everyone live peacefully))! Win-win situation. No more fancy meetings and tasty dinners at the expense of taxpayers, but it's worth it, the peace and progress worth it.

[Derek27]

Following your logic, the help should be limited only to defense systems and non-lethal stuff, like Israel does. Maybe you meant to ATTACK THE AGGRESSOR, though, but that where the fn circus begins, like "oh, we honestly promise not to bomb civs with this "bomb the civs" weapon!"

There's no such thing as a civilian bomb, it's a matter of where you drop them. Russia has been dropping cluster bombs on Kyiv, but Ukraine will be dropping them on their own land and will obviously want to avoid civilian casualties.

What is that magic that turns unacceptable bad for civs weapon into acceptable bad for civs weapon? Promises, with which you can wipe your ass?

The fact that Ukraine doesn't want to kill their own people. More Ukrainians are dying from Putin's deliberate targeting of civilian weapons with cluster bombs and cruise/ballistic missiles.

[napshnap]

There's no such thing as a civilian bomb, it's a matter of where you drop them. Russia has been dropping cluster bombs on Kyiv, but Ukraine will be dropping them on their own land and will obviously want to avoid civilian casualties.

What is that magic that turns unacceptable bad for civs weapon into acceptable bad for civs weapon? Promises, with which you can wipe your ass?

The fact that Ukraine doesn't want to kill their own people. More Ukrainians are dying from Putin's deliberate targeting of civilian weapons with cluster bombs and cruise/ballistic missiles.

But they do. Civs and mobilized. You don't want it then stop it and save human lives. That's how it always works here and there. You do then keep lying about ideological crap.

[Archery1969]

Rumour has it that Putin going to have to make a very tough decision as NATO will allow Ukraine to join, in the short term for secuiry reasons and later on be a full member after meeting economic requirements. Turkey is now going to back the plan.

If true then that puts NATO on a collision course with Putin.

Scary

[Michael5482]

Rumour has it that Putin going to have to make a very tough decision as NATO will allow Ukraine to join, in the short term for secuiry reasons and later on be a full member after meeting economic requirements. Turkey is now going to back the plan.

If true then that puts NATO on a collision course with Putin.

Scary

About time NATO tell Putin get your troops out of the Ukraine by the end of the month or we'll move them out for you.

[firlandsfarm]

I thought cluster munitions were banned, although, personally I dont care what they use ?

No idea but appears Russians have been using them, hopefully get a taste of their own medicine. Wonder if we have any in stock get them over there as well if we have.

The 2008 Convention banning Cluster Munitions was signed by 111 countries. The UK signed. China, Russia, Israel, Ukraine and the USA did not sign.

So, the USA is free to produce, transport and handover to Ukraine as it pleases.

Shouldn't the question be "did Ukraine sign?" ... surely it's the end user that is significant, not the manufacturer.

[Archery1969]

No idea but appears Russians have been using them, hopefully get a taste of their own medicine. Wonder if we have any in stock get them over there as well if we have.

The 2008 Convention banning Cluster Munitions was signed by 111 countries. The UK signed. China, Russia, Israel, Ukraine and the USA did not sign.

So, the USA is free to produce, transport and handover to Ukraine as it pleases.

Shouldn't the question be "did Ukraine sign?" ... surely it's the end user that is significant, not the manufacturer.

Correct. Ukraine never signed. All good to go.

[Archery1969]

Rumour has it that Putin going to have to make a very tough decision as NATO will allow Ukraine to join, in the short term for secuiry reasons and later on be a full member after meeting economic requirements. Turkey is now going to back the plan.

If true then that puts NATO on a collision course with Putin.

Scary

About time NATO tell Putin get your troops out of the Ukraine by the end of the month or we'll move them out for you.

Yeah, something like that. Surprised at Turkey though plus they let a load of Ukraine prisoners go over the weekend which clearly broke the agreement with Russia. Would seem as though Turkey wants something, so is playing ball, at the moment. All good.