Account suspended for premium charge avoidance

[hgodden]

Anyone who (successfully) managed to successfully challenge the existence of the premium charge in the courts (wouldn't happen since we sign up to it before being liable) would effectively be threatening the existence of everyone trading on betfair, and betangel itself. Betfair is a bookmaker that can close anyones account down any time they want. Before introducing the PC betfair said they looked at outlawing trading but decided that taking a PC was the better option.

Us paying the PC means that betfair needs us (whatever anyone says about them replacing us with bots etc - wake up they've been seeding the markets themselves for years and can't do it all themselves when the spreads are so small.) Without our PC payments they would have a huge whole in their balance sheet and would probably just say bye bye to practically most of us, depending on our activity and if it suits them. Be careful what you wish for.

[freddy]

Betfair are just unuseable for me now, they carn't be trusted and will not even produce clear guidlines on what is allowed and whats not.

Thats pretty much what i said Jeff , we need to have clear rules and then individuals can decide if Betfair is worth using or not.

Untill then, it's not worth the hassel for me i carn't afford to have my account suspended for 2 weeks so will just use Betdaq.

I know we think Betfair should produce clear guidelines, however, they are just a bookmaker like any other, they can accept our business or not.

What other bookmaker produces guidelines on why they restrict or close accounts? I can't say I have ever come across such guidelines. I don't believe there is any rule that says they must.

Betfair suspended Peter's account for 5 days, not 14 days, have you heard of people having their account suspended for 14 days?

If you are the only user of Betfair in your household I doubt you have any issues to worry about. If there are other family members that do and combining their accounts with yours could mean you are liable for the PC then I would contact Betfair directly to avoid any issues.

I am not sticking up for Betfair's actions just trying to look at it from a different angle.

Yeah i agree, but then I don't use bookmakers for that very reason, i have no interest in them whatsoever.
The only reason i got into trading was because Betfair allowed you to make some serious money ie a living.
This is now clearly coming to an end and fine that’s up to them,
but I will not be using them in future, it just demotivates me complealty.
Suspending accountS for no reason is just the final straw really for me.

And yes I believe Peter's case was actually delt with very quickly, lots of others have had accounts suspended for 10 to 14 days, according to things i have read on various forums, facebook and from a friend who personally had his account suspended .

There are also stories about accounts being suspended for having similar betting patterns to others and also accounts that have managed to turn big losses into winnings, no idea if they are all true but it wouldn't suprise me at all. I just feel they want rid of big winners full stop to be honest.

[andyfuller]

I think this whole episode just shows that 'we' need to rethink/confirm our views of what Betfair are now.

They are imo just like all other bookmakers. What they used to be about, winners welcome and all that, has gone.

They are not 100% like all other bookmakers as they still welcome winners as long as they get a big enough cut of the winnings where as traditional bookmakers just don't want winner full stop.

It would be interesting to get a response to the two questions I asked though:

What charge did they end up making Peter?

Was there any change in activity on Mrs Webb's account since July 18th away from the norm for her account? EDIT: Since the announcement of PC3? Not suggesting in any way anything was untoward if activity changed in any way.

And finally, how have they left the situation? Can your wife carry on using BF separately or will you both be forever linked? Did they give any guidance on this issue?

[Iron]

I think that's an important point in the PC debate that's often missed.

Jeff

Before introducing the PC betfair said they looked at outlawing trading but decided that taking a PC was the better option.

[andyfuller]

I can't say I heard this before, where was it said? Got a link?

[xitian]

How could they outlaw trading in a practical sense? I mean it's just a back and then a lay bet.

Surely there wouldn't be the liquidity there is if there wasn't trading.

Also, they've now added the "green up" option directly to some of their markets for soccer. Surely that's just promoting trading.

[hgodden]

I can't say I heard this before, where was it said? Got a link?

It was said during one of the betfair Q+A sessions, held around about the time they introduced the orignal PC.

I don't have a link but it may well be on here somewhere as I don't tend to read the Q+A sessions directly on betfair myself. It may well have been you that posted it!

[andyfuller]

It may well have been you that posted it!

I can't say I remember doing as such and would be surprised if I did as I can't see how they could ban it - will have a look through the Q&A and see what was said.

Jeff you got a link?

[Iron]

No, I just took Hgodden's word for it.

Jeff

Jeff you got a link?

[andyfuller]

When you said about it being often missed it sounded like it was something you were aware of for some time. Is this the first time you have heard about it?

[Iron]

If they wanted to get rid of trading, then surely all they would need to do would be to prevent you from backing and laying the same selection...

Jeff

I can't say I remember doing as such and would be surprised if I did as I can't see how they could ban it

[hgodden]

They could just stop access to the API, you couldnt just trade through the website, or at least most couldnt

I'm not saying they're going to or even that they seriously did consider it, but they claimed that they did and may well have considered the option.

Frankly with the amount they must make with the PC it would be crazy to do it now. It would be interesting to see some figures showing how much they actually make from the PC

[Iron]

Yes - that's possibly why I assumed people had been missing it!

But I think it stands to reason that, were Betfair told to abolish the Premium Charge, they they would find some other way of extracting their pound of flesh...

Jeff

When you said about it being often missed it sounded like it was something you were aware of for some time. Is this the first time you have heard about it?

[andyfuller]

I can't say I heard this before, where was it said? Got a link?

It was said during one of the betfair Q+A sessions, held around about the time they introduced the orignal PC.

I don't have a link but it may well be on here somewhere as I don't tend to read the Q+A sessions directly on betfair myself. It may well have been you that posted it!

Just been through trying to found where it was said and then realised this forum didn't exist at the time of the Premium Charge introduction, it wasn't until March 2009 that the forum started.

So I certainly didn't post it on here and I was banned from the BF forum within a day or two of the Premium Charge announcement so I couldn't have posted it on there.

I honestly can't say I don't remember hearing this before.

[andyfuller]

Easiest way to 'ban' trading would be to charge commission on a per winning bet basis imo. I don't think the PC is about banning trading though.