Today's Horse Racing

[ShaunWhite]

Just putting those Aus numbers into context, they saw a big upturn in 2020 when the UK locked down and Australia didn't fully. That seemed to continue through 2021 before tailing off and the recent stats are similar to 2019. Hopefully a slow return to normality or a little less rather than a terminal decline?

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[Bigsie]

Just putting those Aus numbers into context, they saw a big upturn in 2020 when the UK locked down and Australia didn't fully. That seemed to continue through 2021 before tailing off and the recent stats are similar to 2019. Hopefully a slow return to normality or a little less rather than a terminal decline?

Screenshot_4.jpg

Looks like its tracking back towards 2019 levels where it was 'normal' here. Should see an up-tick through Spring, if not, I would be worried.

I am 26 and live in AUS, I come from a betting/advantage play background. I was part of a chat group of about 50 people from 2015. About 20 of them I know personally and about 10 of them are close friends I see regularly. Cut a long story short, theres 1 close friend and about 10 people from the group still punting. The rest went away from the betting space because Betfair keeps raising their commissions and overrounds seem to keep ballooning at corps and we can not bet in-play on sport (some still live by the rule of the law). So they have said, I will put my money to better use elsewhere. But being 26, I am yet to come across another 20 something year old outside my punting group who doesn't 'punt for fun'.

I feel like it is dying here in AUS, there is absolutely no incentive to get into it and the marketing is wack. Not only my age group, my younger siblings and their friends have literally 0 interest in betting or investing for that matter. This is just my opinion built on what I see happening around me, of course I could be a single case scenario but with the prospective to tax gambling companies even more, the customer is just gonna have to wear it.

I do not use any corporate bookmakers, strictly use betfair. My friends refuse to use betfair and strictly use corps, because, marketing. With a younger demographic losing money faster because of the crap odds they get, how long are they gonna stick around? Let alone move to betfair. Betfair could consume alot of these customers that are somewhat curious but again their marketing is wack and when the punter gets burnt they just never go back.

But I am very curious to see where it goes to from here.

[Emmson]

Good info indeed by Shaun.

£2 in 2008 when everything changed on Betfair would be £3+ in todays money.

Britain was still a reasonably affluent country back then too.

The "-08" refers to Aug for each of the years. 2019 is as far back as I have.

Yeah I know I was just going off-point or semi off-point or even quarterly how can I quantify?

[Diggy1884]

Doom loses at 1.05 SP!

The only one I watched the inplay markets for yesterday...
It was backed inplay too.

It beggars belief.

[Bobajob]

Last 5 Augusts for UK horse racing
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And for Australian horse racing
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Be interesting to know what the in-play volumes are ?

[ShaunWhite]

Last 5 Augusts for UK horse racing
Screenshot_9.jpg
And for Australian horse racing
Screenshot_8.jpg

Be interesting to know what the in-play volumes are ?

I could do that but you'd have to leave it with me, it takes ages to run my queries because I don't maintain a seperate reporting database. I have to process the entire stream for 5 years, 4 market types and about a terabyte of data, literally billions of updates.

But I did some spot checks a few months ago and the figures were very similar, certainly no great improvement or even noticeable change when TPD became more widely available tbh.

[Bobajob]

Last 5 Augusts for UK horse racing
Screenshot_9.jpg
And for Australian horse racing
Screenshot_8.jpg

Be interesting to know what the in-play volumes are ?

I could do that but you'd have to leave it with me, it takes ages to run my queries because I don't maintain a seperate reporting database. I have to process the entire stream for 5 years, 4 market types and about a terabyte of data, literally billions of updates.

But I did some spot checks a few months ago and the figures were very similar, certainly no great improvement or even noticeable change when TPD became more widely available tbh.

No prob, sounds like a big job

[ShaunWhite]

No prob, sounds like a big job

5 mins work doing a script and then about 36hrs of waiting. Each day is zipped so moving things around is half the job even on m2 drives I'd have liked to collect data for lots of other sports but I can only have 20 api connections and actually trading uses quite a few.

[Naffman]

Just putting those Aus numbers into context, they saw a big upturn in 2020 when the UK locked down and Australia didn't fully. That seemed to continue through 2021 before tailing off and the recent stats are similar to 2019. Hopefully a slow return to normality or a little less rather than a terminal decline?

Screenshot_4.jpg

Looks like its tracking back towards 2019 levels where it was 'normal' here. Should see an up-tick through Spring, if not, I would be worried.

I am 26 and live in AUS, I come from a betting/advantage play background. I was part of a chat group of about 50 people from 2015. About 20 of them I know personally and about 10 of them are close friends I see regularly. Cut a long story short, theres 1 close friend and about 10 people from the group still punting. The rest went away from the betting space because Betfair keeps raising their commissions and overrounds seem to keep ballooning at corps and we can not bet in-play on sport (some still live by the rule of the law). So they have said, I will put my money to better use elsewhere. But being 26, I am yet to come across another 20 something year old outside my punting group who doesn't 'punt for fun'.

I feel like it is dying here in AUS, there is absolutely no incentive to get into it and the marketing is wack. Not only my age group, my younger siblings and their friends have literally 0 interest in betting or investing for that matter. This is just my opinion built on what I see happening around me, of course I could be a single case scenario but with the prospective to tax gambling companies even more, the customer is just gonna have to wear it.

I do not use any corporate bookmakers, strictly use betfair. My friends refuse to use betfair and strictly use corps, because, marketing. With a younger demographic losing money faster because of the crap odds they get, how long are they gonna stick around? Let alone move to betfair. Betfair could consume alot of these customers that are somewhat curious but again their marketing is wack and when the punter gets burnt they just never go back.

But I am very curious to see where it goes to from here.

I met someone the other day and he said him and a few of his friends bet on the exchange, I was so shocked I genuinely couldn't believe it. Most people I know stick to one bookie, they don't care about who has the best price, they just care about convenience as most of them know they're not going to win anyway.

I see BF Aus. have quite a few marketing guys\gals don't they, but it sounds like/looks like they're battling to get any new blood onto the platform like over here, after all wasn't that what paying PC was for.

[ShaunWhite]

, after all wasn't that what paying PC was for.

Fees are their only income stream those have so they pay for everything not just the adverts.

But I totally agree that value can't be the selling point, what normal punter knows if a horse should be 2.2 or 2.5 anyway and worst of all....... 3 people in the pub place a bet, one gets 2.2, one gets 1.9 and the other gets 2.5 because the price moves so fast. Does Mr 1.9 feel like he's got a great "value" deal? Value matters if you have 10000 bets like we do but for regular Joe it's almost statistically irrelevent.

And that's even before they find out the rules are different to the bookies, but they won't find that out until it bites them on the arse. Even people on here don't bother looking at the small print. Being a consumer of a bookmakers product isn't the same as being an exchange participant.

[Crazyskier]

, after all wasn't that what paying PC was for.

Fees are their only income stream those have so they pay for everything not just the adverts.

But I totally agree that value can't be the selling point, what normal punter knows if a horse should be 2.2 or 2.5 anyway and worst of all....... 3 people in the pub place a bet, one gets 2.2, one gets 1.9 and the other gets 2.5 because the price moves so fast. Does Mr 1.9 feel like he's got a great "value" deal? Value matters if you have 10000 bets like we do but for regular Joe it's almost statistically irrelevent.

And that's even before they find out the rules are different to the bookies, but they won't find that out until it bites them on the arse. Even people on here don't bother looking at the small print. Being a consumer of a bookmakers product isn't the same as being an exchange participant.

Reminds me of a chat I had with a golfing buddy this week. He told me about the 100-1 (William Hill) winner last week, which I happened to notice was the rank outsider at a BSP of 431!

I mentioned this to him, and he was incredulous that you could more than quadruple your winnings by using Betfair rather than the local bookies as he always has. I'm not sure he believed me, but as he's 65+ he's not PC literate so won't make the switch.

CS

[ShaunWhite]

Be interesting to know what the in-play volumes are ?

Worse. TPD hasn't exactly lit a fire under them.

And it might be worse still, I forgot to exclude the volumes traded under say 1.05, which will skew any headline in-running numbers. That might have to wait until they commission Hinkley Point C though.

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[ShaunWhite]

but as he's 65+ he's not PC literate

Oi. It's us in that ballpark who invented your freakin computer. Being 65+ doesn't automatically make you some senile old git.

Kids these days eh.

[napshnap]

Be interesting to know what the in-play volumes are ?

Worse. TPD hasn't exactly lit a fire under them.

And it might be worse still, I forgot to exclude the volumes traded under say 1.05, which will skew any headline in-running numbers. That might have to wait until they commission Hinkley Point C though.

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Screenshot_12.jpg

Been thinking about all this TPD stuff, I think that "geekization" (or elitization) of bf trading/betting that demands more and more tech skills form average joe punter is washing frightening him away. It's superinteresting and challenging stuff but it should stop at some point. Innovations should not be the goal here, it should be liquidity stable rise. It shouldnt become a pros chess club.

[Bobajob]

Be interesting to know what the in-play volumes are ?

Worse. TPD hasn't exactly lit a fire under them.

And it might be worse still, I forgot to exclude the volumes traded under say 1.05, which will skew any headline in-running numbers. That might have to wait until they commission Hinkley Point C though.

Screenshot_9.jpg
Screenshot_10.jpg
Screenshot_12.jpg

Thanks, very interesting.
Actually what would be really interesting is knowing what percentage of the total in-play volume is under 2.0
for each of the last few years.